Author: Dadi Jonsson
Date: 03:22:47 08/02/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 01, 2004 at 17:41:38, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 01, 2004 at 08:21:11, martin fierz wrote: > >>On July 31, 2004 at 21:03:11, Dan Ellwein wrote: >> >>>On July 31, 2004 at 07:24:15, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>[d]3q3r/4b1k1/4P1p1/rpp2p1p/1nn2Q2/5N1P/P4PP1/RBB1R1K1 w >>>>Another GM sac refuted by computers? >>>> >>>>This position is from... >>>> >>>>GM Fischer - GM Leonid Stein >>>>Interzonal, Sousse 1967 >>>> >>>>GM Fischer played the (so called) winning move Bxf5! Annotators claim GM Fischer >>>>wins easily after Bxf5! gxf5 Qg3+ Kh7 Ng5+ Bxg5 Bxg5 Qe8(or Qd3). >>>> >>>>For this reason GM Stein played Qf8? and lost...but Bxf5 gxf5! seems to more >>>>then hold the position. Do any computers or humans disagree. >>>> >>>>Example line. >>>>Bxf5 gxf5! Qg3+ Kh7 Ng5+ Bxg5 Bxg5 Ra3!. >>> >>>here's the analysis after Ra3... >>> >>>P3/850 >>> >>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>4:12:43 2/14 2.36 1240838800 1.Bxf5 gxf5 2.Qg3+ Kh7 3.Bg5 Rg8 >>> 4.Rad1 Qe8 5.Rd7 Rg7 6.Qf4 Nc6 >>> 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxg6+ Kxg6 9.Bxe7 >>> Nxe7 10.Ne5+ Nxe5 11.Rxe5 >>>---- ---- ---- ---- ---- >>>0:00 1/3 2.51 1803 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Qg7 7.Qxc5 >>>0:00 1/4 2.32 4534 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.e7 Re8 >>> 8.Rac1 Nd3 >>>0:00 1/5 2.52 12963 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.Qxc5 Rg8 >>> 8.g3 >>>0:00 1/6 2.52 39803 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.Qxc5 Rg8 >>> 8.g3 >>>0:01 1/7 2.66 113304 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.Qxc5 Nd3 >>> 8.Qxb5 Nxe1 9.Rxe1 >>>0:04 1/8 2.81 409975 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.e7 Qf6 >>> 8.Rad1 Qc6 9.Qd7 Qxd7 10.Rxd7 >>>0:14 1/9 3.18 1257931 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Nac2 7.Bf6 Re8 >>> 8.a3 Nxe1 9.Rxe1 Nd5 10.Bb2 Rc8 >>>0:40 1/10 3.50 3408997 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.e7 Re8 10.Re5 c3 11.Kf1 >>> >>>1:50 1/11 3.62 9678741 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.Rc5 Re8 10.f4 Nd3 >>> 11.f5+ Kf6 >>>4:01 1/12 3.47 22030168 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.g4 h4 10.Kf1 Nd3 11.Rf7 >>> c3 >>>11:23 1/13 3.33 63675821 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.g4 hxg4 10.hxg4 Rd4 >>> 11.Kf1 Rxg4 12.Rf7 c3 13.Ke2 >>>30:38 2/14 3.27 173765145 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.Re5 Re8 10.Kf1 Nd3 >>> 11.Re4 Rc8 12.e7 Kf7 13.Rd1 >>>1:19:29 3/15 3.35 457992923 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.e7 Re8 >>> 8.Rad1 Nc6 9.Rd5 Nc2 10.Re6 N2d4 >>> 11.Rxc6 Nxc6 12.Rxf5 c4 13.Rxh5+ >>> Kg7 14.Rxb5 Rxe7 15.Kf1 >>>Dan >> >>are you sure you analysed the right position? following up from the game, this >>looks just fine for black after e.g. 8...Kg7 i don't see anything at all for >>white. definitely nothing close to +3... >> >>cheers >> martin > >I am sure he analyzed the right position. >He simply use a personality of chessmaster that gives random number or something >close to it as an evaluation only because it is sometimes good at test >positions. > >Uri Here is Shredder 8 analysis BEFORE ...Ra3. (Dual Opteron 248, 2GB, 512MB hash, Chess Assistant 7.1). [+1.48] d=25 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.a3 Nxa3 10.e7 Qf7 11.Qxc5 Nac2 12.Qb6 Nxe1 13.Rxe1 Kg7 14.Qxb5 Re8 15.Qxb4 Kh7 16.Qb5 Rb3 17.Qc6 Qg6 18.Qd5 Rb4 (19:32.51) [+1.49] d=24 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Rd4 9.Rxd4 cxd4 10.Qd1 Nc3 11.Qxd4 Ne4 12.Qd7+ Kg6 13.e7 Qc8 14.Qd4 Qe8 15.f3 Nxg5 16.hxg5 Kh7 17.Re6 Qxe7 18.Rxe7+ Kg8 (12:53.30) [+0.75] d=24 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.a3 Nxa3 10.e7 Qc8 11.Qa1 Qc6 12.Qxh8+ Kxh8 13.e8Q+ Qxe8 14.Rxe8+ Kg7 15.Re7+ Kg6 16.Re6+ Kg7 17.Rde1 Rd7 18.Re7+ Rxe7 (5:11.23) [+0.25] d=24 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.a3 Nxa3 10.e7 Qc8 11.Qa1 f4 12.Qf6 Re8 13.Bxf4 Rxd1 14.Rxd1 Qg4 15.Rd8 Qg8 16.Bg5 Rxd8 17.d8Q Qxg5 (3:38.24) [+0.00] d=23 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (2:26.25) [+0.00] d=22 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (1:31.41) [+0.00] d=21 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (0:47.06) [+0.00] d=20 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (0:34.56) [-0.01] d=19 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (0:31.57) [+0.46] d=19 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Bf6 Qxf6 7.Qxf5+ Qxf5 8.Rec1 Nxa2 9.Rd1 Qxe6 10.Rxa2 Rxa2 11.Rd7+ (0:08.45) [+0.96] d=19 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Bf6 Qxf6 7.Qxf5+ Qxf5 8.Rec1 (0:07.46) [+1.21] d=18 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 16.g4 Nc3 17.Rd8 (0:03.11) [+1.21] d=17 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 16.g4 Nc3 17.Rd8 (0:01.40) [+1.23] d=16 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 16.g4 Nc3 (0:00.55) [+1.33] d=15 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 14.f4 Rxd1 15.g4 Rxe1+ 16.Kg2 (0:00.36) [+1.33] d=15 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 14.f4 Nxa2 15.Rxd3 Ng7 16.e8Q (0:00.32) [+1.08] d=14 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 (0:00.24) [+1.23] d=14 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qxb4 Qxg5 13.g4 Rxd1 14.Rxd1 hxg4 15.Qe4+ Nxe4 (0:00.23) [+1.48] d=13 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 Rg8 9.e7 Rxd1 10.Rxd1 Nxa2 11.Rd8 Nc3 12.h4 Qb1+ 13.Kh2 Qe1 14.Qxb5 Nxb5 (0:00.20) [+1.82] d=13 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Kg6 7.e7 Qc6 8.Qxf5+ Kxf5 9.Rd5+ Nxd5 10.e8Q Rxe8 (0:00.19)
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