Author: Vincent Lejeune
Date: 04:22:16 08/02/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 02, 2004 at 06:22:47, Dadi Jonsson wrote: >On August 01, 2004 at 17:41:38, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 01, 2004 at 08:21:11, martin fierz wrote: >> >>>On July 31, 2004 at 21:03:11, Dan Ellwein wrote: >>> >>>>On July 31, 2004 at 07:24:15, Mark Young wrote: >>>> >>>>>[d]3q3r/4b1k1/4P1p1/rpp2p1p/1nn2Q2/5N1P/P4PP1/RBB1R1K1 w >>>>>Another GM sac refuted by computers? >>>>> >>>>>This position is from... >>>>> >>>>>GM Fischer - GM Leonid Stein >>>>>Interzonal, Sousse 1967 >>>>> >>>>>GM Fischer played the (so called) winning move Bxf5! Annotators claim GM Fischer >>>>>wins easily after Bxf5! gxf5 Qg3+ Kh7 Ng5+ Bxg5 Bxg5 Qe8(or Qd3). >>>>> >>>>>For this reason GM Stein played Qf8? and lost...but Bxf5 gxf5! seems to more >>>>>then hold the position. Do any computers or humans disagree. >>>>> >>>>>Example line. >>>>>Bxf5 gxf5! Qg3+ Kh7 Ng5+ Bxg5 Bxg5 Ra3!. >>>> >>>>here's the analysis after Ra3... >>>> >>>>P3/850 >>>> >>>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>>4:12:43 2/14 2.36 1240838800 1.Bxf5 gxf5 2.Qg3+ Kh7 3.Bg5 Rg8 >>>> 4.Rad1 Qe8 5.Rd7 Rg7 6.Qf4 Nc6 >>>> 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxg6+ Kxg6 9.Bxe7 >>>> Nxe7 10.Ne5+ Nxe5 11.Rxe5 >>>>---- ---- ---- ---- ---- >>>>0:00 1/3 2.51 1803 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Qg7 7.Qxc5 >>>>0:00 1/4 2.32 4534 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.e7 Re8 >>>> 8.Rac1 Nd3 >>>>0:00 1/5 2.52 12963 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.Qxc5 Rg8 >>>> 8.g3 >>>>0:00 1/6 2.52 39803 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.Qxc5 Rg8 >>>> 8.g3 >>>>0:01 1/7 2.66 113304 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.Qxc5 Nd3 >>>> 8.Qxb5 Nxe1 9.Rxe1 >>>>0:04 1/8 2.81 409975 5.Qxa3 Qxg5 6.Qa7+ Kh6 7.e7 Qf6 >>>> 8.Rad1 Qc6 9.Qd7 Qxd7 10.Rxd7 >>>>0:14 1/9 3.18 1257931 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Nac2 7.Bf6 Re8 >>>> 8.a3 Nxe1 9.Rxe1 Nd5 10.Bb2 Rc8 >>>>0:40 1/10 3.50 3408997 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.e7 Re8 10.Re5 c3 11.Kf1 >>>> >>>>1:50 1/11 3.62 9678741 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.Rc5 Re8 10.f4 Nd3 >>>> 11.f5+ Kf6 >>>>4:01 1/12 3.47 22030168 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.g4 h4 10.Kf1 Nd3 11.Rf7 >>>> c3 >>>>11:23 1/13 3.33 63675821 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.g4 hxg4 10.hxg4 Rd4 >>>> 11.Kf1 Rxg4 12.Rf7 c3 13.Ke2 >>>>30:38 2/14 3.27 173765145 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Re5 c4 >>>> 8.Rxf5 Kg6 9.Re5 Re8 10.Kf1 Nd3 >>>> 11.Re4 Rc8 12.e7 Kf7 13.Rd1 >>>>1:19:29 3/15 3.35 457992923 5.Qxa3 Nxa3 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.e7 Re8 >>>> 8.Rad1 Nc6 9.Rd5 Nc2 10.Re6 N2d4 >>>> 11.Rxc6 Nxc6 12.Rxf5 c4 13.Rxh5+ >>>> Kg7 14.Rxb5 Rxe7 15.Kf1 >>>>Dan >>> >>>are you sure you analysed the right position? following up from the game, this >>>looks just fine for black after e.g. 8...Kg7 i don't see anything at all for >>>white. definitely nothing close to +3... >>> >>>cheers >>> martin >> >>I am sure he analyzed the right position. >>He simply use a personality of chessmaster that gives random number or something >>close to it as an evaluation only because it is sometimes good at test >>positions. >> >>Uri > >Here is Shredder 8 analysis BEFORE ...Ra3. (Dual Opteron 248, 2GB, 512MB hash, >Chess Assistant 7.1). > >[+1.48] d=25 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.a3 Nxa3 10.e7 Qf7 11.Qxc5 Nac2 12.Qb6 Nxe1 13.Rxe1 Kg7 14.Qxb5 > Re8 15.Qxb4 Kh7 16.Qb5 Rb3 17.Qc6 Qg6 18.Qd5 Rb4 (19:32.51) > >[+1.49] d=24 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Rd4 > 9.Rxd4 cxd4 10.Qd1 Nc3 11.Qxd4 Ne4 12.Qd7+ Kg6 13.e7 Qc8 14.Qd4 > Qe8 15.f3 Nxg5 16.hxg5 Kh7 17.Re6 Qxe7 18.Rxe7+ Kg8 (12:53.30) > >[+0.75] d=24 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.a3 Nxa3 10.e7 Qc8 11.Qa1 Qc6 12.Qxh8+ Kxh8 13.e8Q+ Qxe8 > 14.Rxe8+ Kg7 15.Re7+ Kg6 16.Re6+ Kg7 17.Rde1 Rd7 18.Re7+ Rxe7 > (5:11.23) > >[+0.25] d=24 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.a3 Nxa3 10.e7 Qc8 11.Qa1 f4 12.Qf6 Re8 13.Bxf4 Rxd1 14.Rxd1 Qg4 > 15.Rd8 Qg8 16.Bg5 Rxd8 17.d8Q Qxg5 (3:38.24) > >[+0.00] d=23 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (2:26.25) > >[+0.00] d=22 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (1:31.41) > >[+0.00] d=21 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (0:47.06) > >[+0.00] d=20 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (0:34.56) > >[-0.01] d=19 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.h4 Nd5 8.Qc1 Nb4 > 9.Qf4 Nd5 10.Qc1 Nb4 11.Qf4 Nd5 (0:31.57) > >[+0.46] d=19 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Bf6 Qxf6 7.Qxf5+ Qxf5 8.Rec1 > Nxa2 9.Rd1 Qxe6 10.Rxa2 Rxa2 11.Rd7+ (0:08.45) > >[+0.96] d=19 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qf8 6.Bf6 Qxf6 7.Qxf5+ Qxf5 8.Rec1 > (0:07.46) > >[+1.21] d=18 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 > 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 16.g4 Nc3 17.Rd8 (0:03.11) > >[+1.21] d=17 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 > 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 16.g4 Nc3 17.Rd8 (0:01.40) > >[+1.23] d=16 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 > 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 16.g4 Nc3 (0:00.55) > >[+1.33] d=15 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 > 14.f4 Rxd1 15.g4 Rxe1+ 16.Kg2 (0:00.36) > >[+1.33] d=15 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 > 14.f4 Nxa2 15.Rxd3 Ng7 16.e8Q (0:00.32) > >[+1.08] d=14 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qd7 Qe8 13.Qxe8 Nxe8 > 14.f4 Rxd1 15.Rxd1 Nxa2 (0:00.24) > >[+1.23] d=14 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Qd6 10.Qf5+ Qg6 11.Qxb5 Nd6 12.Qxb4 Qxg5 13.g4 Rxd1 > 14.Rxd1 hxg4 15.Qe4+ Nxe4 (0:00.23) > >[+1.48] d=13 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Rd3 7.Qxf5+ Qg6 8.Qxc5 > Rg8 9.e7 Rxd1 10.Rxd1 Nxa2 11.Rd8 Nc3 12.h4 Qb1+ 13.Kh2 Qe1 > 14.Qxb5 Nxb5 (0:00.20) > >[+1.82] d=13 4...Ra3 5.Qf4 Qe8 6.Rad1 Kg6 7.e7 Qc6 8.Qxf5+ Kxf5 > 9.Rd5+ Nxd5 10.e8Q Rxe8 (0:00.19) as pointed in an other message, the start position of your analyse is not good, because white have better move before : Bxf5 gxf5! Qg3+ Kh7 Ng5+??? <- here's the blunder Bg5! is better and may be winning [d]3q3r/4b2k/4P3/rpp2pBp/1nn5/5NQP/P4PP1/R3R1K1 b - - 0 3 here white still winning, may be you can confirm this with your Dual Opteron 248 ?
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