Author: Thomas Lagershausen
Date: 07:21:27 08/07/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 07, 2004 at 09:47:23, Uri Blass wrote:
>On August 07, 2004 at 08:51:51, Thomas Lagershausen wrote:
>
>>[D]3r2rk/3n1pp1/2p1b2p/3q3P/pp1PNQ2/2P2P2/PP6/KB4RR w - - 0 29
>>
>>In this speedchessgame in round two of the fide-wcc 2004 the IM Neelotpal
>>(2457)found with 29.Rg1-g6 !! with the thread to sacrifice the rook on h6 the
>>strongest move to show that white is not(!) worse in this position.
>>
>>I bet that every computer of the world wouldn´t have found this in a compareable
>>time.
>>
>>So this is a lesson in tactics where computers can learn form human players.
>>
>>Do you agree?
>>
>>TL
>
>
>No
>
>I suspect that the human gambled about 29.Rg6 without checking all the
>possibilities with the idea that if he cannot find a defence for black by some
>selective lines that he analyzed then the opponent will probably also not find
>it even if the sacrifice is not correct.
It is easy to say i suspect that someone can´t calculate this variation because
nobody can look in a human brain. I don´t like this style of thinking because it
has something like i can´t do it so everybody can´t do it. And that is nonsense.
A player with a ELO of 2457 can calculate things much better than a
nonprofessional player. That´s the way it is, and every strong player will agree
with this.
>
>In this case the sacrifice seems to be correct but there are a lot of cases when
>humans sacrifice wrong sacrifices for the same reason.
Humans are making mistakes, this is not the theme in this discussion.
>
>I also will never bet that no computer in the world can find it in comperable
>time(it is easy to say that no program can find something and proving it is
>clearly impossible task when you do not have all the private programs to check).
So i ask the community with this bet.
>
>I do not have chess system tal but I will be surprised if no program can find
>it.
Maybe you can learn something today.
>
>
>Some possible line based on Ruffian's suggestion is the following line and I
>guess that most programs need time even only to find 4.Rh7 with a positive
>score:
>
>[Event "?"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "?"]
>[Round "-"]
>[White "?"]
>[Black "?"]
>[Result "*"]
>[FEN "3r2rk/3n1pp1/2p1b2p/3q3P/pp1PNQ2/2P2P2/PP6/KB4RR w - - 0 1"]
>[SetUp "1"]
>
>{--------------
>. . . r . . r k
>. . . n . p p .
>. . p . b . . p
>. . . q . . . P
>p p . P N Q . .
>. . P . . P . .
>P P . . . . . .
>K B . . . . R R
>white to play
>--------------}
>1. Rg6 fxg6 2. hxg6 Rge8 3. Rxh6+ Kg8 4. Rh7 Bf5 5. Qh4 Bxg6 6. c4 Bxh7 7.
>cxd5
>*
>Uri
This line is correct and it costs Ruffian alot of time to find it.
TL
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.