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Subject: Re: Pro Deo FAQ

Author: José Carlos

Date: 08:27:04 08/12/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 12, 2004 at 11:11:28, Frank Quisinsky wrote:

>On August 12, 2004 at 10:01:27, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On August 12, 2004 at 07:28:54, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>
>>>On August 12, 2004 at 06:22:50, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 12, 2004 at 00:32:29, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Last comment:
>>>>>>>Try ProDeo without the UCI adapter, it works better ... believe me!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Best
>>>>>>>Frank
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Great suggestion, Frank. As I'm so stupid, I never considered running a
>>>>>>winboard engine loaded as a winboard engine. How could I forget that?
>>>>>>  Answer: it was the first I tried. It crashed. I didn't call uncle Frank
>>>>>>crying, I just tried the UCI version. It worked. Good enough for me, I don't
>>>>>>need anything else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  José C.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm a bit confused myself. I have experienced no problems with the UCI adapter
>>>>>of Pro Deo in Arena, so perhaps there's something strange. I never even bothered
>>>>>to load it as a Winboard engine, since the directions given were to run it as a
>>>>>UCI engine. I ran a full Nunn match without any problems, and have absolutely no
>>>>>problems running the engine to analyze positions. How long am I supposed to run
>>>>>it before problems appear? What kind of problems BTW?
>>>>>
>>>>>                                        Albert
>>>>
>>>>  I was only being a bit sarcastic. I tried winboard version and it crashed.
>>>>Then I tried UCI (with the adapter) and it worked. Is has worked fine for me
>>>>since then, without problem. Maybe Frank can illuminate us with "the
>>>>catastrophic problems of using the adapter".
>>>>
>>>>  José C.
>>>
>>>Hi José,
>>>
>>>catastrophic problem :-)
>>>A good sentence ...
>>>
>>>It's not the adapter I have a problem!
>>>It's the situation that users are thinking Arena needs Adapter or Converter and
>>>this is wrong.
>>
>>
>>  If this is all the problem, great, it's very easy to solve. Just tell them
>>they don't *need* an adapter, but that they can use it if they want. :)
>>
>>
>>>Example:
>>>http://f27.parsimony.net/forum67213/messages/2108.htm
>>>Not a German message :-)
>>>
>>>All engines are playing without adapters / converters and works fine!
>>>Maybe this one explain my messages!
>>
>>
>>  A rating list, fine. But in the reply, I see you have problems with Gromit,
>>MAD, and Arasan. They work perfectly here. Maybe you don't know well how to
>>configure them? ;)
>>
>>
>>>Arena don't need an adapter, for Rebel or ProDeo too.
>>
>>
>>  In my computer, it does. Believe it or not, that's up to you.
>>
>>
>>>The once reason for an adapter I see is that the users get a little bit more
>>>information from the engine. But here it's more easy as to develops an adapter
>>>to create a new WB protocol.
>>
>>
>>  If you want to "monopolize" the adapters and protocols world, you can simply
>>implement more things in Arena. For example, implement an "internal adapter" so
>>that all winboard engines are, from the point of view of the user, working in
>>UCI mode, and thus can be configured with a right click.
>>
>>
>>>In my opinion it's more easy to go direct the way to the end.
>>>Not to go drive over Paris if I have interest to drive from Trier to the next
>>>town Schweich. Here are intellegant programmers, think so, and it must be not a
>>>big problem to build a group for make the WinBoard protocol better.
>>
>>
>>  See me other reply to you (in the other post).
>>  I'll only add that going to Paris in your example might be a great idea. Paris
>>is a wonderful city.
>>
>>
>>>Often I have the feeling the group is only builded if new things comes (example
>>>Stefan's idea with UCI and the discuss I read here). Only anti UCI discuss but
>>>not one discuss to solved the problems with WB. If users don't find all the nice
>>>information in WB compare the UCI we have all possibilitys to changed that.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>Frank
>>
>>
>>  Propose your ideas, please. I'll be happy to listen. But *propose*, don't try
>>to force or convince, just propose.
>>
>>  José C.
>
>Hi Jose,
>
>the engines you speak about works also fine under Arena.
>We have for an example CCC and much other chess fora.
>
>Arasan don't work prefectly, under WB too.
>The program have problems with loosed on time games in ponder mode. I believe
>you played games without ponder? In this case the problem have no problems.
>Gromit have problems with move before the time control ended. Gromit played in
>blitz tempo and loosed much games. Francesca have a bad WB support and played
>much better with more hash-tables. Experiments I made with Francesca for years,
>on my older webpage I have added more as 1.000 games with a lot of examples.


  I have two computers. In the dual, I play with ponder on. Arasan works fine
here. Gromit and Francesca MAD also work fine here but:
  Arena has a bug with time controls of x moves in y minutes, so I choose to use
time controls with increments, which work fine. The bug is this: supose we
choose 40 moves in 30 minutes and 30 minutes for the rest. Program A makes its
move 40, with 3 seconds left on the clock. Program B also moves and A starts to
think its 41 move. After 3 seconds, Arena says white has lost on time! It
forgets to update the clocks, and only do it _after_ move 41. I've seen this
myself after watching many different engines (not only Averno) losing on time. I
don't complain, Arena is freeware, it's a gift. I switch to a different time
control and I'm happy.

  José C.



>Chess fora system are interesting for discuss around computer chess. Everyone
>can add an opinion with a good explanation. If I add in the past an opinion I
>try to give an explanation for my opinion.
>
>I have the opinion that a group of persons can work also in the futures of
>protocols. This is a main topic for the develops for the future. I am not sure
>if you understand my point of view.
>
>Stefan Meyer Kahlen try to solved much of the UCI problems and have in the
>opinion by Martin Blume success with UCI II. I am not a programmer and I see my
>part in other topics to give a comment to the opinion by Martin.
>
>But this is a nice example to do it. Many other programmers have written a lot
>about the protocols in the past. In the case of WB I can't see more as good
>comments.
>
>Schweich and Trier are wonderful town too. Of course Paris is wonderful ... Here
>we have the same opinion :-)
>
>Have a nice day!
>
>Best
>Frank



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