Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 06:02:48 08/22/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 22, 2004 at 08:55:58, Andrew Williams wrote: >On August 22, 2004 at 08:19:09, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>On August 22, 2004 at 06:33:35, Andrew Williams wrote: >> >>>On August 21, 2004 at 20:42:17, Mike Byrne wrote: >>> >>>>On August 21, 2004 at 16:14:08, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 21, 2004 at 15:48:11, Graham Banks wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? >>>>> >>>>>Yes but in the case of List the suspect is stronger than some baseless >>>>>accusation because the ICGA decided to ban list. >>>>> >>>>>I expect that innocent person in this situation will do some steps to defend >>>>>himself and Fritz did nothing. >>>>> >>>>>If some newspaper claim bad things about you and you do nothing against the >>>>>newspaper then it is natural that people believe the newspaper inspite of the >>>>>fact that there is no proof excpet the fact that it was written in the >>>>>newspaper. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>I hope you are not picked as a juror with your preconceived notions of innocence >>>>and guilt based on behavior patterns. The "requirement" to defend if you are >>>>innocent is degrading and I can understand perfectly well why he elected not to >>>>defend. It has no relevancy on his guilt or innocence. Also,If you believe >>>>everything you read in a newspaper that is not refuted is true, not all your >>>>beliefs will be true. It will serve you well to always carry around healthy >>>>dose of professional skepicism. Btw, we're talking about a program that plays >>>>a "game" -- in the big picture it may be that important to Reul to defend. >>> >>>Fritz Reul entered the WCCC. The rules of the WCCC state that if the tournament >>>director requests it, the participant must provide a copy of his source-code for >>>inspection. There's not "innocent until proven guilty" here; this was a >>>competition with its own set of rules. He had the opportunity to prove his >>>innocence, per the rules, and decided not to do so. This doesn't make him guilty >>>of copying crafty, but it does make him guilty of breaking the rules, for which >>>he was disqualified. >>> >>>I feel the same about this case as I do about cases where athletes avoid drug >>>tests. Under law they are entitled to be assumed innocent of taking drugs (which >>>may or may not be illegal outside of the competition) until proven guilty. Under >>>the rules of the competition, they must submit themselves for drug testing. If >>>they want to refuse to submit themselves for drug testing, they shouldn't enter >>>the competition. >>> >>>I understand that the cases are not identical because in the WCCC rules, the TD >>>has to have some reason to believe that a program is a clone of another (in >>>atheletics it's just random). But I'm inclined to believe the TD in this >>>instance. I can't imagine Jaap v.d. Herik suddenly getting up on his hind legs >>>and accusing someone of something this serious without a VERY good reason. I >>>have the advantage of you, I presume, because I have met him a couple of times. >>> >>>Andrew >> >> >>Fine, if you know him so well. I doubt that you can say anything at all about >>the LIST affair. But I can certainly ask you a question: would you think that >>Jaap would also ask Fritz or Shredder for their source code if Vincent claimed >>that they were partly Crafty clones? Would you really think that Jaap would want >>to hurt his own sponsor? Now show me how good you know him. I met him twice BTW. > >What makes you so sure it was Vincent who made the complaint? I was told that it > was not him. But that is hearsay. Nothing for sure, I meant it because in the other case of RUFFIAN in Leiden he was it too. Know what I mean? And also there he was wrong. But wrong or not, my point was that you must answer if Jaap would also ask for ChessBase products in that same way. I doubted it. LIST was not a threat for ChessBase programs but to DIEP and SJENG in Graz. Make your choice. >As to your question about Fritz and Shredder, >I don't know. I was talking about this specific case, where I believe Jaap acted >correctly. > >I'm off on holiday in a couple of hours, so I won't be able to respond for the >next week or so. > >Andrew
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