Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:46:28 08/23/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 23, 2004 at 11:31:22, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >On August 23, 2004 at 11:14:13, Lance Perkins wrote: > >>You don't need to disassemble the Crafty code. You already have the source code >>in C. >> >>You only need to disassemble the ElChinito exe file. Paul has posted that for us >>too. > >Who knows whether Paul hadn't made a mistake when preparing his post ? > >I think in order to confirm his analysis, the disassembling part has to be >redone independently too. > >Having said this, I don't want to indicate that Paul had really made a mistake. >He really seems to know what he is doing. Doing this is not a bad idea, just for confirmation. I quit looking at this stuff after all the clone problems of the past few years, except when someone provides data that looks convincing. There are other "bugs" in crafty that are going to haunt people. :) I won't reveal what they are, but Crafty does a few odd things because of things I have tried in the past and then forget to fix. IE I can look at a program's output on ICC and easily say "that program uses iterate.c from Crafty." One day when I have a lot of time, I might blow the lid off of _several_ programs. :) > > > > >> >>All that's left is to compare the two. Look at the Crafty C code and determine >>if that will get translated to the assemlby file from ElChinito. >> >>Read Bob's post, where he himself has agreed that the analysis is correct. >> >>I have done compiler backends before, so looking at this kind of stuff is easy >>for me. And yup, Bob and Paul are correct. > >So, have you really disassembled yourself ElChinito ? > >Uli > >> >>On August 23, 2004 at 11:06:07, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >> >>>On August 23, 2004 at 10:51:37, Tony Werten wrote: >>> >>>>On August 23, 2004 at 10:48:44, Tony Werten wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 23, 2004 at 10:06:27, Peter Berger wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On August 23, 2004 at 09:34:06, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>So, what you here basically miss is this: in an expert environment something has >>>>>>>been proven and we have one or two who can't believe it, also because they don't >>>>>>>understand what Paul had discovered. >>>>>> >>>>>>But that's exactly the "problem", Rolf. For example you don't understand the >>>>>>potential proof either, but it would not be reasonable if someone were >>>>>>disappointed about it IMHO, which was my point. You are right that there are >>>>>>others who can, but those who can't, can't judge, other than choosing to believe >>>>>>in conclusions others reached. The only thing an ordinary user can do is look if >>>>>>the statements themselves seem to make sense and sound logical, but you can't >>>>>>evaluate the assembler statements e.g., and if tomorrow someone else posted >>>>>>another explanation which is coherent, you wouldn't know who is right. So a >>>>>>baseless accuse and a perfect proof will look alike to you too - q.e.d. >>>>> >>>>>I guess that's why they have expert witnesses in court. They find somebody who >>>>>does know and believe him. >>>>> >>>>>Of several experts claim something, then you can't defend yourself anymore with >>>>>"I don't believe it because I don't know anything about it", you'll have to come >>>>>up with oposite prove. >>>>> >>>>>Being somewhat experienced with programming, I can tell you: "Code was copied." >>>> >>>>Oops, just found the 1 exception: "... If the 2 programs compared were Crafty en >>>>Chinito" >>> >>>I think that's the point. >>> >>>In order to really confirm Paul's analysis (which seems quite convincing so >>>far), you would have to disassemble Crafty and Chinito yourself. You'd have to >>>identify the code sections which correspond to each other. Finally, you'd have >>>to verify that the bugs mentioned by Paul are really present in both sections. >>> >>>I am afraid that this may be a quite tedious task. Who is willing to do this ? >>> >>>Just believing Paul may be a bit too simple in view of the severity of his >>>conclusions. >>> >>>Uli >>> >>>> >>>>Tony >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Tony
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