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Subject: Re: IQ-Test Position 166, any hint how to solve it ?

Author: Gerd Isenberg

Date: 11:33:00 08/25/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 25, 2004 at 14:01:38, Volker Böhm wrote:

>On August 25, 2004 at 13:54:27, Stan Arts wrote:
>
>>On August 25, 2004 at 13:41:18, Volker Böhm wrote:
>>
>>>On August 25, 2004 at 13:06:40, Álvaro Begué wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 25, 2004 at 12:52:46, Volker Böhm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>the following position of the iq - test (position 166) cannot be solved from
>>>>>spike in reasonalbe time (> 2h):
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]r4r1k/6pp/3p3b/1p1Npb2/3nB2q/2N3P1/PP3P1P/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>(The move to find is Qxe4)
>>>>>
>>>>>The reason is a nullmove-problem. After the queen-sac there are many moves that
>>>>>leads to a mate-thread. But one queen back spike tends to prune because of
>>>>>nullmove result.
>>>>>
>>>>>I tested the position with fritz 8, he solves it in 8 ply in nearly no time.
>>>>>(PRODEO NEEDS 7 Ply, Ruffian 1.01 11 Ply).
>>>>>
>>>>>Are there non commercial engines that solves this position too in a short amount
>>>>>of time?
>>>>>Maybe the author of this engine would be so kind to explain the rule that solves
>>>>>the nullmove-problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks Volker
>>>>
>>>>Ruy-Lopez solves it in depth 8, in under 30 seconds.
>>>
>>>Do you know if Ruy-Lopez has a special rule to skip nullmove-prunings in such a
>>>position?
>>>
>>>Greetings Volker
>>
>>But this position seems very dependant on static evaluation. Have you tried
>>forcing Qxe4 to see if Spike really doesn't see it, or just prefers another
>>move instead, that it scores slightly better. (The program needs to score
>>mobility and pressure on the king and so considerably, I guess. Before it'll
>>choose Qxe4) There seems no clear short-term tactical win. (is there?)
>>
>>Greetings and goodluck
>>Stan
>
>Thanks for the hint. You are right. Spike does not score pressure on the king
>very much if no queen is present. On top the queen has a high score (960 cp).
>Reducing the score of the queen solves the position.
>
>Thus no "fault" of the search. As this is the only position in iq-test spike
>does not solve in less than 10 minutes I thought I had found a "hole" in search.
>
>Greetings Volker

Queen and passer against three light pieces - a bit uncertain without further
positional considerations. There might be a lot of cases where white is winning
with this material ;-)

The huge black f3 bishop controlling the whole a1-h8 diagonal, the bishop pair,
active knight (oups attacked, anyway), safe black king, the passive white
f1-rook, weak, attacked pawns. That and counting weighted attacks and dominated
squares should clearly favour black here.

[D]5r1k/6pp/3p3b/4p3/2Qn4/r1P2bP1/P4P1P/4RRK1 b - -

Gerd



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