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Subject: Re: Some observations about future of CCC.....

Author: Andreas Guettinger

Date: 15:31:26 08/25/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 25, 2004 at 18:19:39, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 25, 2004 at 17:45:14, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>
>>On August 25, 2004 at 16:02:10, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On August 25, 2004 at 13:21:14, Tom Likens wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 25, 2004 at 11:38:13, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 25, 2004 at 11:13:48, Steven Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>First of all, thanks for all the kind words about my company. Although there is
>>>>>>one person who seems to feel that we run CCC/CTF off ICD bandwidth - which we do
>>>>>>not, and believes that the message board brings us lots of customers - which it
>>>>>>does not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as the issue about hosting CCC (and CTF) is concerned....
>>>>>>I took a quick count of the responses to the choices I laid out. Here are the
>>>>>>results (wasn't easy to count since some people made no specific letter choice
>>>>>>but rather made general comments), at least as far as members who posted their
>>>>>>choices as of now:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>12      a) some other organization can take over the responsibility of hosting
>>>>>> 4      b) CCC and CTF can be disbanded and members can rejoin the USENET
>>>>>>44      c) members can pay a yearly fee to belong
>>>>>> 5      d) members can voluntarily contribute
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There were, as usual, many, many differing opinions about how to fix the
>>>>>>problem, but I thought Ed posted about the issue most eloquently:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Think about the work involved, first the daily work of making the archives, the
>>>>>>complaints by email about moderation issues, the legal threats some people make
>>>>>>when they are banned, can the person really stand the heat, or will be shut down
>>>>>>the website? Then the work involved regarding 2 mod elections a year. Then so
>>>>>>now and then the site will go down, suppose the person is on vacation or ill?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here is some more, the person fells in love, priorities change, goodbye with the
>>>>>>forum. People move to other cities, get a new and very busy job, people get
>>>>>>sick, become a father, change priorities all the time -> there goes the forum
>>>>>>again. The end result is so predictable.... CTF will run from pillar to post, 2
>>>>>>times a year at least.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wanna bet?
>>>>>>Ed :)"
>>>>>
>>>>>In case of a problem it is possible to deal with it but I see no reason to care
>>>>>about problems that Ed imagines.
>>>>>
>>>>>I always post in forums without paying for it and I see no reason to start to
>>>>>pay for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>The only acceptable solution except volunteers is companies that sponsor it and
>>>>>get advertisment(it is the case in some moderated forums in hebrew that I know).
>>>>>
>>>>>Solution when people are asked to pay is not acceptable by me.
>>>>>I am surprised that 44 people supported paying.
>>>>>
>>>>>I never was asked to pay for participating in discussions and the idea to force
>>>>>me to pay make me angry.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not the amount of money that I am asked to pay.
>>>>>If people pay only for the right to participate in discussions in forum X then
>>>>>later it may encourage forum Y and forum Z to ask them to pay.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Hello Uri,
>>>>
>>>>I don't believe Steven is moving towards this option lightly, but is being
>>>>forced into it by the economics of the situation.  From the tone of his
>>>>messages it seems clear that he would have continued on with things as they
>>>>are indefinitely, but simply cannot because of the cost.
>>>>
>>>>Ultimately, *someone* must pay (the first thing they teach you in Economics,
>>>>is that there is no free lunch).
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes but it is always someone else who pay and not the posters of the forum.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Until now that someone has been ICD, but
>>>>now the money is running out and the cost and hassle of maintaining the
>>>>forum is simply too large compared to the benefit Steven and ICD are
>>>>receiving.
>>>
>>>No problem and I do not complain against ICD if they stop to pay but when there
>>>are other people who suggest to replace ICD, I see no reason to decide to
>>>imagine problems that Ed suggest and still to pay for the forum.
>>>
>>>As far as I know I always post in moderated forums for free(in the worst case I
>>>need to see some advertisment but I never need to pay).
>>>
>>>I refuse to get used to pay when there is an alternative because it may
>>>encourage other forums to ask me money for posting.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I try to rephrase your statement in one line of code:
>>"Why should I pay when others are willing to do it for me?"
>>
>>If somebody else is willing to take the CCC forum over then that just means that
>>somebody else has to "pay" (in terms of money and time) for it.
>>Personally, I'm very glad if I can contribute something financially to the
>>people who did all the work hosting this site because I already have a bad
>>feeling about all the time and work they offer for free. Especially since I
>>never bought something from ICD (sorry folks).
>>
>>
>>regards
>>Andy
>
>Even in a small country like Israel there are many hundreds of moderated forums
>when  people discuss about a lot of subjects
>
>There are some advertisments that people who post in the forums see
>but people are never asked to
>pay a single dollar for participating in the forums.
>
>
>people who know hebrew can get list of the forums that begin in every letter in
>hebrew from the following link http://www.tapuz.co.il/forums/
>
>It is only forums that belong to tapuz and there are many other forums in hebrew
>that you can get not from links in tapuz.
>
>Israel is a very small country and there are a lot of hebrew forums when the
>number of posts is clearly smaller than the number of posts in  this forum.
>A lot of Forums are opened for a long time with average number of posts like 30
>posts per day that is clearly smaller than this forum.
>
>I assume as obvious that this forum can  continue to exist in some way even if
>posters do not need to pay a single dollar.
>
>The number of posters is probably high enough to make some company get
>interested in it and even if ICD does not earn money from it another company may
>earn money from it.
>If it is not the case then I do not understand the reason that so many moderated
>forums when people do not need to pay money exist.
>
>Uri

I see your point and I can also see the concern about loosing members.

Netherless I think it would be a good idea if there exists a possibility to
donate money to whoever who is the current owner of the forum. (I think I
ouplayed myself gramatically in this one) :)

regards
Andy



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