Author: Andreas Guettinger
Date: 15:31:26 08/25/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 25, 2004 at 18:19:39, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 25, 2004 at 17:45:14, Andreas Guettinger wrote: > >>On August 25, 2004 at 16:02:10, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 25, 2004 at 13:21:14, Tom Likens wrote: >>> >>>>On August 25, 2004 at 11:38:13, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 25, 2004 at 11:13:48, Steven Schwartz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Everyone, >>>>>>First of all, thanks for all the kind words about my company. Although there is >>>>>>one person who seems to feel that we run CCC/CTF off ICD bandwidth - which we do >>>>>>not, and believes that the message board brings us lots of customers - which it >>>>>>does not. >>>>>> >>>>>>As far as the issue about hosting CCC (and CTF) is concerned.... >>>>>>I took a quick count of the responses to the choices I laid out. Here are the >>>>>>results (wasn't easy to count since some people made no specific letter choice >>>>>>but rather made general comments), at least as far as members who posted their >>>>>>choices as of now: >>>>>> >>>>>>12 a) some other organization can take over the responsibility of hosting >>>>>> 4 b) CCC and CTF can be disbanded and members can rejoin the USENET >>>>>>44 c) members can pay a yearly fee to belong >>>>>> 5 d) members can voluntarily contribute >>>>>> >>>>>>There were, as usual, many, many differing opinions about how to fix the >>>>>>problem, but I thought Ed posted about the issue most eloquently: >>>>>> >>>>>>"Think about the work involved, first the daily work of making the archives, the >>>>>>complaints by email about moderation issues, the legal threats some people make >>>>>>when they are banned, can the person really stand the heat, or will be shut down >>>>>>the website? Then the work involved regarding 2 mod elections a year. Then so >>>>>>now and then the site will go down, suppose the person is on vacation or ill? >>>>>> >>>>>>Here is some more, the person fells in love, priorities change, goodbye with the >>>>>>forum. People move to other cities, get a new and very busy job, people get >>>>>>sick, become a father, change priorities all the time -> there goes the forum >>>>>>again. The end result is so predictable.... CTF will run from pillar to post, 2 >>>>>>times a year at least. >>>>>> >>>>>>Wanna bet? >>>>>>Ed :)" >>>>> >>>>>In case of a problem it is possible to deal with it but I see no reason to care >>>>>about problems that Ed imagines. >>>>> >>>>>I always post in forums without paying for it and I see no reason to start to >>>>>pay for it. >>>>> >>>>>The only acceptable solution except volunteers is companies that sponsor it and >>>>>get advertisment(it is the case in some moderated forums in hebrew that I know). >>>>> >>>>>Solution when people are asked to pay is not acceptable by me. >>>>>I am surprised that 44 people supported paying. >>>>> >>>>>I never was asked to pay for participating in discussions and the idea to force >>>>>me to pay make me angry. >>>>> >>>>>This is not the amount of money that I am asked to pay. >>>>>If people pay only for the right to participate in discussions in forum X then >>>>>later it may encourage forum Y and forum Z to ask them to pay. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Hello Uri, >>>> >>>>I don't believe Steven is moving towards this option lightly, but is being >>>>forced into it by the economics of the situation. From the tone of his >>>>messages it seems clear that he would have continued on with things as they >>>>are indefinitely, but simply cannot because of the cost. >>>> >>>>Ultimately, *someone* must pay (the first thing they teach you in Economics, >>>>is that there is no free lunch). >>> >>> >>>Yes but it is always someone else who pay and not the posters of the forum. >>> >>> >>> Until now that someone has been ICD, but >>>>now the money is running out and the cost and hassle of maintaining the >>>>forum is simply too large compared to the benefit Steven and ICD are >>>>receiving. >>> >>>No problem and I do not complain against ICD if they stop to pay but when there >>>are other people who suggest to replace ICD, I see no reason to decide to >>>imagine problems that Ed suggest and still to pay for the forum. >>> >>>As far as I know I always post in moderated forums for free(in the worst case I >>>need to see some advertisment but I never need to pay). >>> >>>I refuse to get used to pay when there is an alternative because it may >>>encourage other forums to ask me money for posting. >>> >>>Uri >> >>I try to rephrase your statement in one line of code: >>"Why should I pay when others are willing to do it for me?" >> >>If somebody else is willing to take the CCC forum over then that just means that >>somebody else has to "pay" (in terms of money and time) for it. >>Personally, I'm very glad if I can contribute something financially to the >>people who did all the work hosting this site because I already have a bad >>feeling about all the time and work they offer for free. Especially since I >>never bought something from ICD (sorry folks). >> >> >>regards >>Andy > >Even in a small country like Israel there are many hundreds of moderated forums >when people discuss about a lot of subjects > >There are some advertisments that people who post in the forums see >but people are never asked to >pay a single dollar for participating in the forums. > > >people who know hebrew can get list of the forums that begin in every letter in >hebrew from the following link http://www.tapuz.co.il/forums/ > >It is only forums that belong to tapuz and there are many other forums in hebrew >that you can get not from links in tapuz. > >Israel is a very small country and there are a lot of hebrew forums when the >number of posts is clearly smaller than the number of posts in this forum. >A lot of Forums are opened for a long time with average number of posts like 30 >posts per day that is clearly smaller than this forum. > >I assume as obvious that this forum can continue to exist in some way even if >posters do not need to pay a single dollar. > >The number of posters is probably high enough to make some company get >interested in it and even if ICD does not earn money from it another company may >earn money from it. >If it is not the case then I do not understand the reason that so many moderated >forums when people do not need to pay money exist. > >Uri I see your point and I can also see the concern about loosing members. Netherless I think it would be a good idea if there exists a possibility to donate money to whoever who is the current owner of the forum. (I think I ouplayed myself gramatically in this one) :) regards Andy
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