Author: David Dahlem
Date: 20:09:24 08/25/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 25, 2004 at 23:00:08, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 25, 2004 at 19:58:21, José Carlos wrote: > >>On August 25, 2004 at 17:41:22, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>I subscribe to a normal "legal philosophy" from the US. For a "crime" to be >>>committed, a couple of things are needed. >>> >>>(1) Intent. You need to knowingly break the law. IE if you walk into a store, >>>see a dollar bill laying on the floor, and you pick it up without thinking, you >>>_could_ be accused of theft of property. But there was no intent since the >>>floor is not a normal place for someone to leave "property" that is valuable. >>>No crime was committed. >>> >>>I believe this case fits that scenario. >>> >>>(2) Victim. Someone has to be victimized, directly or indirectly. He's not >>>tried to enter any ACM chess events which would victimize participants. He has >>>not publicly claimed that his code was 100% original that I have seen, so I am >>>not a victim. >>> >>>This is an unfortunate event, but one that doesn't leave me nearly as aggravated >>>as some of the other more famous cases, like bionic, le petite, voyager, et. al. >>> They definitely claimed the code to be original when it was not. >> >> Hi Bob, I'd don't quite understand your position. I'd like to know your >>opinion about these questions, to help me clarify: >> >> -shoud current version of ElChinito be allowed to participate in computer >>chess events without indicating it derives from Crafty? > >No. Not even if it is clearly written that it is a derived program. That >simply won't work. > >> -should Castillo and Tang be penalized somehow for previous participations? > > >Question is, what have they played in besides Frank's private tournaments. I've >never seen them in an event that I can call.. From http://www.playwitharena.com/directory/partner.htm#elchinito EL Chinito results (computer chess tournaments since 2001): 2001, 3rd French programmers Massy 3.5/6 points, ranking 5 of 12 2002, 9th France-ch Massy 8/11 points, ranking 3 of 12 2002, 4th French programmers Massy, Champion 5/6 points, ranking 7 of 12 2002, 10th WCCC Maastricht 4.5/9 points, ranking 10 of 18 2003, 5th French programmers Massy 4/6 points, ranking 3 of 18 2003, 10th France-ch Massy 4.5/7 points, ranking 3 of 14 2003, 18th WMCCC Graz 5/11 points, ranking 07 of 15 Regards Dave > > >> -is the copywright in Quisinky's page legal? > >I don't see how if any of the source comes from Crafty, which it obviously did. > > > >> -is hidding the truth acceptable when not explicity saying lies? > >Of course not... > > > >> -what would you think if other 100 engines would be proven to be in the same >>situation of ElChinito? > > >I wouldn't be _that_ surprised. :( > > > >> -should ElChinito change its name now to explicity indicate it derives from >>Crafty? >> -should current released versions of ElChinito be released again with source >>code included? >> > > >I don't really care about the last point. The problem is that this is something >that shouldn't have happened, no doubt. But as I said, I don't see any massive >attempt at fraud or anything so far. Again, I am basing my opinion only on what >I know or have seen. There could be much that I don't know, or there could be >nothing more to it. > > > >> José C.
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