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Subject: Re: Open letter by Eugenio Castillo (ELChinito team) ... What you missed

Author: Gerd Isenberg

Date: 13:03:29 08/28/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 28, 2004 at 15:21:59, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On August 28, 2004 at 13:10:53, Gerd Isenberg wrote:
>
>>On August 28, 2004 at 12:57:19, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On August 28, 2004 at 11:44:30, Gerd Isenberg wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 28, 2004 at 10:23:53, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi there,
>>>>>
>>>>>Eugenio sent us the following open letter.
>>>>>The letter is public on Arena webpages (News-Ticker).
>>>>>
>>>>>Best
>>>>>Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>Eugenio wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>---
>>>>>
>>>>>"I've used crafty source to implement my own program ElChinito.
>>>>>
>>>>>My public and sincere apologize to Bob Hyatt not to mention that in ElChinito's
>>>>>readme file and copyright notes and did not ask consequently for permission. I
>>>>>will ensure that ElChinito is not longer public available for download and plays
>>>>>any public tournaments.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've inform ICGA and French Computer Chess Association about this issue to
>>>>>accept their decision, and discalificate Chinito from the played events.
>>>>>
>>>>>My apologize to Frank Q. for the damages caused.
>>>>>
>>>>>My apologize to any one of the tester and downloaders of Arena.
>>>>>
>>>>>Eugenio Castillo."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My respect to Eugenio Castillo for his late apology.
>>>>It seems that he had a hard time and a long fight to decide so.
>>>>
>>>>It was a severe offence of Eugenio, i understand that routines like NextMove
>>>>have another quality than some cray like bitscan routines or moveInput.
>>>>
>>>>Eugenio obviously used Crafty framework as a toolbox for the bitboard
>>>>infrastructure and parts of move generation and even minor parts of eval. He
>>>>was, probably due his naivety, not fully aware of the cloning issue or did
>>>>repress it in some way, after receiving no answer from Bob after some tries.
>>>>Didn't Dann Corbit mention Eugenio mailed Bob about that issue, but Bob didn't
>>>>receive for what reasons ever?
>>>>
>>>>It is difficult to quantify for me, but it seems that most of ElChinitos
>>>>strength was not based on Crafty but on Eugenio's own search and most parts of
>>>>it's evaluation.
>>>>
>>>>So i respect his decision to don't make ElChinito open source and i suggest to
>>>>give ElChinito a second chance after some time, until Eugenio assures that no
>>>>more parts of crafty are inside - IMHO.
>>>>
>>>>Gerd
>>>
>>>
>>>This way you cant help a collegue! You do the same, already Frank Q did. You try
>>>to blame those who were cheated. This is indecent.
>>
>>Was that really an insult from my side?
>
>Yes! I will show you here below.
>
>
>>
>>I was a bit harsh, but i asked some questions and was only aware of the posted
>>assembly at that time.
>
>Gert,


Why do you always confuse my name?


>in science talking about witchhunt is like crazy! You say you asked
>questions. Refuted! Because if you are NOT experienced enough then ask questions
>but dont insult with such ugly dirt! Gert, because you couldn't follow the
>debate, that doesn't justify that you insinuate that some noble man might be
>involved/interested in witchhunts. Idont know your profession but say you are an
>engineer. Now you build bridges. And for a particular question you make a
>qualified analysis where you showed that someone else was cheating with his
>data. Would that be allowed if I then came and called you involved in
>witchhunting just because I'm angry and I cant understand why suddenly someone
>is attacking a friend of mine?
>

I'm not a scientist.
Only thanks to Willy Brandt second education way Dipl.Informatiker FH.
I replied to Paul after he mentioned witch hunting, that i had it in mind too.
My first impression was "Mach meinen Kumpel nicht an!"


>
>>
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383737
>>
>>I asked "Did i missed something?"
>>I asked "BTW. Is it legal to disassembly others executables?"
>
>
>Refuted. Dont play naive. If you
>asked if you missed something that doesn't allow or justify your insult!
>

It was not my intention to insult.
I admit that i asked questions in a biased way.

>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>A guy who committed fraud stated that he had contacted Bob, Frank said, several
>>>times, and who said that Bob didn't answer (!!), but Bob explained that he had
>>>never received a request by Castillo.
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>>
>>>Do you, Gerd, now want to put Bob and Castillo on equal levels.
>>
>>I simply believe both in that issue.
>
>
>What a hoax!!! I cant believe it that you are so premature. Of course a man
>commiting fraud is NOT in the same boat with Bob.

There are a lot of people in this scene if have great respect for.
One for sure is Bob.


>Ah, now I see a possible link
>with you and Vincent. Fine loyalty for other computerchess collegues. But for a
>multi time Wch you have no respect?
>


Sorry, what is with my link to Vincent?
Yes, we whole chessprogrammers are secret conspirators.


>
>>What is the reason that Dann Corbit was involved?
>
>
>I tell you. He was as confused as you were. He thought for a longer moment that
>he could hope that Castillo could be whitewashed. He didn't answer me other than
>saying that I didn't understand his message. But I understood it well. The whole
>Bob story is of no value for the debate because Castillo committed the fraud if
>Bob answered in time or NOT. Castillo was obliged to include a mention of Bob's
>Crafty with or without Bob's permission. Man, do we have to debate now Adam &
>Eve questions. It's incredible.
>
>As you could see even Bob's late Christian excuses for the programmer was
>meaningless because it's NOT Bob who's deciding if it was fraud or not.


And who decides?
You, as the moral imperator of computerchess?


>The
>not-mention of Crafty is identical with fraud! Period.
>No matter if Bob is angry or a Saint...
>

That matters a lot. He may know details you didn't.


>
>
>>
>>>
>>>I must honestly say that you can forget all about a rehabilitation in this case.
>>>I do also feel much sorrow that Frank Q and also you insulted Paul H here in CCC
>>>of something like witchhunt.
>>
>>My reply to Paul Hunter:
>>
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383861
>>
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383864
>>
>>"Thanks for clarifying this again.
>>So the executable contained a symbol map.
>>Yes, witch hunting really came in my mind too."
>>...
>>"My apologies to you."
>
>Yes, I saw that and it was a fair message. But now you continue with the message
>to Quisinsky which is again the try to exculpate them. The following paragraphe
>is perhaps not so known to you but my text doesn't imply that you didn't
>apologize to Paul. It means, sorry that I have to tell you, but you asked for
>it, that you should stay on the level of apologizing after that unbelievable
>insult of withhunting. The same is for Quisinsky. It's morally odd to see you
>two now in the attack position so short after your witchhunt allegation. Was
>that understandable now? Please show some respect here. I think I could be both
>your father and you simply dont want to listen although you made such a grave
>mistake!
>
>Honestly Gert, I wouldn't have written anything at all if Quisinsky wouldn't
>have behaved here as if he just had made a typo or such petitesse. This is an
>outrage scandal for the whole computerchess family and that is no occasion of
>making jokes or playing naive.
>
>Let me finally specify. Other than the above you didn't do anything wrong. I see
>you desperate try to show solidarity with a collegue. That honors you, Gert. But
>that here is such a scandal that we shouldn't take it lightly. Bob certainly has
>a somewhat "verklärte" view on these things because he has seen so many
>possibilities to cheat and he was himself unfairly attacked for alleged
>cheating. But look, he didn't doubt the work by Paul H for a second.
>

If Bob has a misty view, what about your view?
What do you suggest to do with Eugenio?

Gerd

>
>>
>>>I mean you should apologize instead of publishing
>>>such utter nonsense in your actual message. I mean is this scene so rotten dirty
>>>that you cant feel what this is dirty in your message?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Gerd



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