Author: martin fierz
Date: 23:36:48 08/28/04
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On August 28, 2004 at 18:40:43, martin fierz wrote: >aloha! > >after all the cloning talk, here's something to test your favorite engine with: >i played a weakish IM today and got the following position after 56...Qg6+ >57.Kf2: > >[D] 8/6kp/8/3p4/1P4q1/P4p2/5K2/4Q3 b - - 0 57 > >it took me a couple of seconds to see that after 57...Qh4+ 58. Kf1 Qxe1+ 59. >Kxe1 Kf6 black is completely winning due to the floating square (it's nice to >see that reading dvoretzky is some good!) and so i played that and won :-) > >interestingly, when i entered this game in chessbase running fritz7 in the >background, fritz didn't seem to see this at all within a minute or so. so >question to all: how long does your favorite engine need to see the line ...Qh4+ >Kf1 Qxe1+ with a HUGE plus score (i.e. +9 or so - that is what my assessment of >the position was after a couple of seconds...)? > >i don't want to claim that this is the only win, but it is by far the easiest >one, and fritz 7 misses it completely. > >cheers > martin kurt made the (unfortunately valid) point that my original position allows black to win without exchanging queens. so i've modified it to exclude that possibility. the point i wanted to make is that human experts don't treat an exchange into a pawn ending as "yet another variation", instead they check such exchanges much more carefully. which is why i see this Q-exchange variation immediately, and an engine which either 1) doesn't check trades into pawn endings properly or 2) lacks knowledge about the square / the floating square will have trouble coming up with the line i gave. which also means it would have trouble in my next test position, which is a simple modification (i removed the black pawn on f3 - if 6-piece tablebases with 4 pawns were available, one could add another white pawn on a2/b2/b3 for engine confusion without changing the result): [D] 8/6kp/8/3p4/1P4q1/P7/5K2/4Q3 b - - 0 57 black still wins with the Q-exchange, and he wins very easily. my fritz 7 on a P4 1.4GHz is showing ...Qc4 (0.00)after 6 minutes (can anybody check out fritz 8?). so again: which engine sees this in a reasonable amount of time? to me it is just very astonishing that a top engine like fritz can't handle this... i'm used to analyze my games with fritz, and usually it finds errors i make, and not vice versa :-) cheers martin
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