Author: Richard Pijl
Date: 02:18:34 08/29/04
Go up one level in this thread
>the point i wanted to make is that human experts don't treat an exchange into a
>pawn ending as "yet another variation", instead they check such exchanges much
>more carefully. which is why i see this Q-exchange variation immediately, and an
>engine which either
>1) doesn't check trades into pawn endings properly or
>2) lacks knowledge about the square / the floating square
>will have trouble coming up with the line i gave. which also means it would have
>trouble in my next test position, which is a simple modification (i removed the
>black pawn on f3 - if 6-piece tablebases with 4 pawns were available, one could
>add another white pawn on a2/b2/b3 for engine confusion without changing the
>result):
>
>[D] 8/6kp/8/3p4/1P4q1/P7/5K2/4Q3 b - - 0 57
>
>black still wins with the Q-exchange, and he wins very easily. my fritz 7 on a
>P4 1.4GHz is showing ...Qc4 (0.00)after 6 minutes (can anybody check out fritz
>8?).
>
>so again: which engine sees this in a reasonable amount of time? to me it is
>just very astonishing that a top engine like fritz can't handle this... i'm used
>to analyze my games with fritz, and usually it finds errors i make, and not vice
>versa :-)
>
>cheers
> martin
The Baron 1.4.0 on a P4-2.4:
ply time nodes score pv
10(25)& 0:18.68 5081393 +0.00 Kg7-f6 Qe1-c3 d5-d4 Qc3-c6 Qg4-e6 Qc6-f3
Kf6-e5 Qf3-e2 Ke5-d5 Qe2-b5 Kd5-e4 Qb5-e2
Ke4-d5 <rep>
10(25)+ 0:22.80 6262907 +0.31 Qg4-h4 (Kf2-e2) (Qh4xe1) (Ke2xe1) (Kg7-f6)
(b4-b5)
(Kf6-e6) (b5-b6) (Ke6-d6) (Ke1-f1) (d5-d4)
(Kf1-g2)
(h7-h5) (Kg2-f3) (d4-d3) (Kf3-f4) (d3-d2)
(b6-b7)
(d2-d1Q)
10(25)& 0:23.68 6540074 +0.74 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e6 a4-a5 Ke6-d7 Ke1-e2 h7-h5 a5-a6
Kd7-c8 b4-b5 h5-h4 b5-b6
10(25). 0:24.67 6820332 +0.74 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e6 a4-a5 Ke6-d7 Ke1-e2 h7-h5 a5-a6
Kd7-c8 b4-b5 h5-h4 b5-b6
11(27)- 0:37.63 10188686 +0.39 Qg4-h4 (Kf2-e2) (Qh4xe1) (Ke2xe1) (Kg7-f6)
(a3-a4)
(h7-h5) (a4-a5) (h5-h4) (Ke1-e2) (d5-d4)
(Ke2-f3)
(d4-d3) (a5-a6) (Kf6-e7) (a6-a7) (d3-d2)
(a7-a8Q)
11(30)& 0:58.44 15729915 +0.00 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4-c4 Ke2-f3 Kg7-f6 Qe1-e3
Kf6-f5 Kf3-f2 d5-d4 Qe3-f3 Kf5-g5 Qf3-g3
Kg5-f5 Qg3-f3 <rep>
11(30). 1:11.19 19109430 +0.00 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4-c4 Ke2-f3 Kg7-f6 Qe1-e3
Kf6-f5 Kf3-f2 d5-d4 Qe3-f3 Kf5-g5 Qf3-g3
Kg5-f5 Qg3-f3 <rep>
12(30)+ 1:24.09 22000360 +0.35 Qg4-h4 (Kf2-e2) (Qh4xe1) (Ke2xe1) (Kg7-f6)
(a3-a4)
(Kf6-e5) (b4-b5) (Ke5-d6) (Ke1-f2) (d5-d4)
(Kf2-g3)
(Kd6-e7) (Kg3-g2) (Ke7-e8) (Kg2-h2)
(Ke8-e7) (a4-a5)
(d4-d3) (a5-a6) (d3-d2) (a6-a7) (d2-d1Q)
(a7-a8Q)
12(30)+ 1:25.91 22582243 +1.25 Qg4-h4 (Kf2-e2) (Qh4xe1) (Ke2xe1) (Kg7-f6)
(a3-a4)
(Kf6-e5) (b4-b5) (Ke5-d6) (a4-a5) (h7-h5)
(a5-a6)
(Kd6-c7) (Ke1-e2) (h5-h4) (Ke2-d3) (d5-d4)
(Kd3xd4)
12(30)& 1:28.32 23402081 +1.82 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 a4-a5 Ke5-d6 Ke1-f2 h7-h5 Kf2-f3
Kd6-c6 Kf3-g3 d5-d4 Kg3-h4 d4-d3 Kh4xh5
12(30). 1:31.07 24212928 +1.82 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 a4-a5 Ke5-d6 Ke1-f2 h7-h5 Kf2-f3
Kd6-c6 Kf3-g3 d5-d4 Kg3-h4 d4-d3 Kh4xh5
13(29)+ 1:32.66 24603509 +2.17 Qg4-h4 (Kf2-e2) (Qh4xe1) (Ke2xe1) (Kg7-f6)
(a3-a4)
(Kf6-e5) (Ke1-f2) (h7-h5) (Kf2-g3) (d5-d4)
(Kg3-f3)
(Ke5-d6) (Kf3-g2) (Kd6-e5) (Kg2-f3) <rep>
13(32)& 1:39.09 26470095 +2.25 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 b4-b5 Ke5-d6 a4-a5 Kd6-c7 Ke1-f2
h7-h5 Kf2-f3 Kc7-b7 a5-a6 Kb7-a8 a6-a7
h5-h4 b5-b6
13(32). 1:50.29 29331622 +2.25 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 b4-b5 Ke5-d6 a4-a5 Kd6-c7 Ke1-f2
h7-h5 Kf2-f3 Kc7-b7 a5-a6 Kb7-a8 a6-a7
h5-h4 b5-b6
14(32)& 2:05.78 33311715 +2.55 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 b4-b5 Ke5-d6 a4-a5 Kd6-c7 Ke1-f2
h7-h5 b5-b6 Kc7-b7 Kf2-e3 h5-h4 Ke3-d4
h4-h3 Kd4xd5
14(32). 2:23.19 38040794 +2.55 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 b4-b5 Ke5-d6 a4-a5 Kd6-c7 Ke1-f2
h7-h5 b5-b6 Kc7-b7 Kf2-e3 h5-h4 Ke3-d4
h4-h3 Kd4xd5
15(32)+ 2:28.52 39208076 +2.90 Qg4-h4 (Kf2-e2) (Qh4xe1) (Ke2xe1) (Kg7-f6)
(a3-a4)
(Kf6-e5) (b4-b5) (Ke5-d6) (b5-b6) (h7-h5)
(Ke1-d2)
(h5-h4) (Kd2-e3) (d5-d4) (Ke3-f2)
15(34)& 2:48.68 44922015 +2.94 Qg4-h4 Kf2-e2 Qh4xe1 Ke2xe1 Kg7-f6 a3-a4
Kf6-e5 b4-b5 Ke5-d6 b5-b6 h7-h5 a4-a5
Kd6-c6 Ke1-f2 Kc6-b7 Kf2-e3 h5-h4 Ke3-f4
Kb7-a6 Kf4-g4 d5-d4
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