Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:43:12 08/30/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 30, 2004 at 21:57:13, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >On August 30, 2004 at 16:59:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On August 30, 2004 at 16:23:25, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>>On August 30, 2004 at 15:33:19, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On August 30, 2004 at 14:51:01, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 13:51:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 12:24:54, Volker Böhm wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 10:02:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 08:30:34, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 08:12:52, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Eine FPGA-Karte untersucht momentan ca. 3 Millionen Positionen/Sekunde. 16 >>>>>>>>>>Karten machen daher theoretisch 48 MPos/sec. (Donninger) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If Hydra made 48 Mpos/sec this again proves (in comparison >>>>>>>>> with the 2 Mpos/sec on Quad-Opteron server with 4 CPU's of >>>>>>>>> Shredder) that the number of pos/sec can't be taken as a >>>>>>>>> reliable value for the goodness of a chess program. It's >>>>>>>>> of course simply impossible to compare apples and organes. >>>>>>>>> Kurt [http://www.utzingerk.com] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Don't forget that Hydra ripped Shredder's head off. So the NPS _might_ be >>>>>>>>significant here... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Didn´t I´ve heard you saying that 10 games are not enough to draw a >>>>>>>statistically significant conclusion on the playing strength? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Greetings Volker >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>With two _close_ opponents, correct. But if one is seriously stronger, as hydra >>>>>>appeared to be, 10 games is plenty. >>>>> >>>>>We do not know if hydra is seriously stronger. >>>> >>>>We have a pretty good clue that it is. It is over 10x faster, potentially, than >>>>other programs. >>>> >>>>1. I first assume that the programmer / designer is no dummy. >>>> >>>>2. all else being "equal" 10x faster is a _serious_ advantage. >>>> >>>>3. the above two points translate into a signficant strength advantage. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>You cannot start by assuming that hydra is significantly stronger when this is >>>>>the question. >>>> >>>>With evidence, you can. IE I can certainly assume that Crafty on an 8-way >>>>opteron is significantly stronger than Crafty on my dual xeon. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>If you see 10-0 you can say based on the result that Hydra is significantly >>>>>stronger but when you see 5.5-2.5 you cannot claim it based on the result and >>>>>you only can say that you do not know if it is significantly stronger based on >>>>>the result. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>If you only look at the results, maybe or maybe not. But I watched many of the >>>>games with Crafty analyzing. That tells you even more. >>> >>>Hydra is unquestionably very strong, but lets not forget that Shredder lost the >>>first two games out of book. >>> >>>anthony >> >> >>Depends also on the definition of "lost". IE it didn't come out of book at -4 >>or something. It just got rolled in kingside attacks because of castle-opposite >>issues that Hydra seemed to play better. Of course the stronger side often does >>play such positions better. :) > >Of course Hydra is very strong. Its just that I am not willing to throw in the >towel on Shredder and declare Hydra the new WCCC just yet ;) > >anthony With any luck, we'll see how strong they are at the next WCCC next Summer...
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