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Subject: Re: How I Learned to Stop Hating 141

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 15:14:56 09/03/04

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On September 03, 2004 at 17:30:18, Stuart Cracraft wrote:

>On September 03, 2004 at 16:52:34, Andrei Fortuna wrote:
>
>>On September 03, 2004 at 15:41:42, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>
>>>On September 03, 2004 at 05:08:01, Andrei Fortuna wrote:
>>>
>>>>This makes me think how funny would be if two engines play, engine A would have
>>>>all kinds of those extensions in case of check etc, engine B would have
>>>>implemented a good eval function (with many terms regarding positional play) and
>>>>in the match engine B leads engine A towards the positions where engine A
>>>>discovers those mate attacks and so forth ahead of engine B, but he is on the
>>>>losing side due to B's positional play.
>>>
>>>I think this kind of self-play event and auto-tuning and genetic algorithms
>>>in general are under-estimated by the computer chess programmers. Just
>>>because good results haven't been generated and there is no easy "elixer"
>>>doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying it.
>>>
>>>Think of the time-savings. Heck, your auto-tune doesn't have to produce
>>>Bob Hyatt hand-crafted Crafty evaluation coefficients for terms you have
>>>to find and prove first -- but even if you don't produce something other
>>>than what you are doing now but saving a lot of time, then you have profited
>>>more.
>>
>>
>>Hi Stuart,
>>
>>Wasn't talking about auto-tuning, just was thinking that if someone invests in
>>evaluation function versus someone who invests in various extensions - the
>>former wins the game. Of course in reality programmers usually take care of both
>>areas ...
>>
>>Andrei
>
>Yes -- I understand you weren't -- but there is a big savings if you do
>it right.
>
>For me, it is worth investigating as I don't want to spend the rest of
>my life tuning evaluation functions.

I believe that I can earn more from adding new knowledge relative to tuning.

Tuning can be done not automatically based on watching problems that repeat in
games.

Uri



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