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Subject: Re: Interesting Position from 1834 game in London

Author: Cliff Sears

Date: 18:37:37 09/05/04

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On September 05, 2004 at 00:20:23, Stuart Cracraft wrote:

>On September 04, 2004 at 21:39:53, Cliff Sears wrote:
>
>>[d] 4rrk1/1b2bppp/2q5/p1P1p3/3pN3/5P2/PPB1Q1PP/2RR2K1 b - - 0 20
>>
>>1934 game between Alexander McDonnel and Louis Labourdonnais. From "The World's
>>Greatest Chess Games" by Burgess
>>
>>Black to move and the move made by Black was "f5" "Black immediately begins the
>>decisive advance. Note that he spends no time on prophylaxis against White's
>>Queenside play, confident that his pawn-storm will sweep everything from its
>>path"
>>
>>Black went on to win.
>>
>>Fritz 8 Suggests: Bb7-a6
>>Hiarcs 8 Suggests: Qc6-d7
>>and Kibitzer Anaconda 1.6.2 Suggests: Re8-c8
>>
>>Does your engine have an even different suggestion or even the played move?
>
>Looks like everybody is disagreeing. Here are the results of
>GA and Crafty. And they both differ from each other as well
>as with the above!
>
>GA gives a lot of weight to centralized knights. In this case
>enough to get the bishop over to hit the knight, but not enough
>to force a f5 push. Wouldn't be hard to make the program do it.
>
>Still, there are clues, the tempo of f5 hitting the knight -- relative
>lack of white king defense, the weakness at f3 and the weak(er) g3, etc.
>I believe the king side pawn storm is a bit of a stretch though popular
>in that time as defensive play was not popular. Stronger players will
>no doubt disagree.
>
>Alpha=-108 Beta=392 Maxdepth=9999999 MaxTime=9999999
> 1/ 3> c6e4  0.00  392        8 c6e4
> 1/ 4  e7c5  0.01 1104       89 e7c5
> 2/18< e7c5  0.02  854      841 e7c5 e4c5 c6c5 c2h7
> 2/18  c6d5  0.02  142     1780 c6d5 e2b5
> 3/21  e8d8  0.06  145    10295 e8d8 e2c4 f8e8
> 4/21  e8d8  0.13  141    31863 e8d8 e2e1 c6c7 c2b3
> 5/27  c6e6  0.52  140   141955 c6e6 e2d3 e6h6 c2b3
> 6/31  c6d5  2.41  134   690624 c6d5 e2b5 e7d8 e4d6 b7c6 c2e4
> 7/36  b7c8 16.89  134  4221047 b7c8 e2e1 c8f5 e1a5 e8a8 a5b4 a8a2
> 8/48  e8b8 51.29  133 12385562 e8b8 e2d3 c6h6 d1e1 b7d5 d3a3
> 9/48  b7c8 259.08  127 49174372 b7c8 e2d2 c8f5 e4d6 f5c2 c1c2 e8a8 d6f5 e7f6
>
>Crafty 19.16 plays:
>
>                7     0.98  -0.02   1. ... Rd8 2. Bd3 Qe6 3. Qd2 a4 4.
>                                    Ng5 Bxg5 5. Qxg5 Qxa2
>                7->   1.87  -0.02   1. ... Rd8 2. Bd3 Qe6 3. Qd2 a4 4.
>                                    Ng5 Bxg5 5. Qxg5 Qxa2
>                8     3.10   0.15   1. ... Rd8 2. Bd3 Rc8 3. Re1 Rfd8 4.
>                                    Nd6 Bxd6 5. cxd6 Qxc1 6. Rxc1 Rxc1+
>                8     6.97   0.09   1. ... Rc8 2. f4 f6 3. Bd3 exf4 4.
>                                    Bc4+ Kh8 5. Rxd4 Bxc5 6. Nxc5 Qxc5
>                8    11.83  -0.08   1. ... Qc7 2. Re1 f5 3. Nd2 Bxc5 4.
>                                    Qc4+ Kh8 5. Bxf5 Rxf5 6. Qxc5
>                8->  12.60  -0.08   1. ... Qc7 2. Re1 f5 3. Nd2 Bxc5 4.
>                                    Qc4+ Kh8 5. Bxf5 Rxf5 6. Qxc5
>                9    17.20   0.00   1. ... Qc7 2. Re1 Bc6 3. Bd3 f5 4.
>                                    Nd2 Bg5 <HT>
>                9    20.54  -0.01   1. ... Rd8 2. Bd3 Rd5 3. Bc4 Rdd8 4.
>                                    Bd3
>                9->  24.38  -0.01   1. ... Rd8 2. Bd3 Rd5 3. Bc4 Rdd8 4.
>                                    Bd3
>               10    39.70   0.04   1. ... Rd8 2. Bd3 Qe6 3. b3 Qc6 4.
>                                    Nd2 Rd5 5. f4 Rfd8 6. fxe5 Bxc5
>               10     1:03  -0.03   1. ... Qc7 2. Re1 Bd5 3. f4 Rb8 4.
>                                    Nd6 Bxd6 5. cxd6 Qxd6 6. fxe5 Qe7
>               10->   1:37  -0.03   1. ... Qc7 2. Re1 Bd5 3. f4 Rb8 4.
>                                    Nd6 Bxd6 5. cxd6 Qxd6 6. fxe5 Qe7
>               11     1:37   1/37*  1. ... Qc7
>
>
>Stuart


Your assessment sounds good. Rebel 12 did select this move for a time and then
changed its mind.



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