Author: Ulrich Tuerke
Date: 03:50:10 09/08/04
Go up one level in this thread
On September 08, 2004 at 06:30:45, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >On September 08, 2004 at 05:53:18, Gerd Isenberg wrote: > >>On September 08, 2004 at 02:55:32, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On September 08, 2004 at 02:11:29, Jonas Bylund wrote: >>> >>>>On September 08, 2004 at 01:52:31, Lin Harper wrote: >>>> >>>>> The two groups exist in parallel, and have done for some years now. When it >>>>>came to light that we should all help pick up the tab for the maintaining of the >>>>>server, a certain amount of ill will set in, at least for a few people. >>>>> A couple of guys on CCC inferred that to make a donation would be to show >>>>>support for CTF, a forum they don't like because of the perceived mood and lack >>>>>of manners of a lot of CTF posters. >>>>> CTF members generally have at least a passing interest in computer chess too. >>>>>Most of them have several chess playing programs. It's a safe bet they read CCC, >>>>>even if they rarely post. And being established as friends on CTF, they fire >>>>>broadsides at each other in the knowledge that there is generally no lasting ill >>>>>will. If you would care to start dropping into CTF regularly and joining in a >>>>>bit, you may even start enjoying the good natured atmosphere. >>>>> We are really just parts 'a' and 'b' of the same group. If either group were >>>>>to disappear, the administrative cost would be virtually unchanged, so it's not >>>>>a matter of one group subsidising the other. >>>>> best regards >>>>> Lin Harper >>>> >>>>During this debate i have frequently read the CTF forum to be sure if it was as >>>>bad as i remembered it and i found it to be even worse... I see no friendly >>>>atmosphere other than a couple of nice guys from the CCC forum once in a while >>>>joking with eachother, but besides from that it is a horrible place IMO. >>>> >>>>I don't see how them having a passing interest in computer chess have anything >>>>to with CTF as computer chess is virtually never discussed there and having a >>>>chessprogram does not qualify in my book as being on topic :) >>>> >>>>"A couple of guys on CCC inferred that to make a donation would be to show >>>>support for CTF" i wouldn't say it was "a couple of guys" i got the impression >>>>that a lot of guys from the CCC forum felt that way. >>>> >>>>To me it is not a question of saving money to drop CTF, it is a question of >>>>princibles, i find that place to be bad and i don't want to donate to a forum >>>>that is associated with it. >>> >>> >>> Hi Jonas >>> I fully agree with you. I am wondering why some people >>> regularly try to play down CTF to a normal forum. >>> Kurt >> >>Hi Kurt, >> >>sorry, what is a "normal" forum? >> >>I agree that there is a lot of junk in CTF, but also brilliant posts about >>various topics. CTF, even moderated, is a kind of anarchic - free speach has >>some drawbacks sometimes. >> >>Even if i don't post there regulary, reading CTF is often a kind awareness >>widening for me, to learn about how various people from different cultures talk >>and think about antisemitism, terrorism and other political, religious and >>social topics. >> >>I guess without CTF, CCC-moderators will have an even harder job here to act on >>off topic posts. Therefore all CCC-members profit from CTF, whether they like it >>or not. >> >>Using and profit from CCC for free in the past, but suddenly question CTF due to >>a voluntary donation looks like a double moral standard to me. >> >>Cheers, >>Gerd > > Hi Gerd > It is true: I seldom visit CTF and has never posted > there. But what I have lately seen there regarding > terrorism was sufficient for me to conclude that CTF > is not a "normal" forum where such things would be > be cancelled on the spot and where the writers would > be banned by cancelling their passwords. > Kurt Look Kurt, the problem is to say, what is "normal". Usually, we consider something as being "normal" in case it fits into our standard European view of the world. For instance, "our" media are reporting pictures and opinions about Near East in a way which differs a lot from the reports in USA and Israel. It's then natural to assume that opinions which are deviating so much from our standard wisdom must be due to bad intentions; they must be purely propagandistic. But that's a mistake and what you reply may very well insult other posters. Listening to "unnormal" postings may well mean that we are just in the process of learning to drop one of our prejudices. And imho that's quite a lot - of course much more than ccc will ever be able to accomplish. Nevertheless, it is of course true that the level of insults in ctf is a bit high. When reading posts there, one has to filter; this helps. Uli
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