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Subject: Re: Restricting extensions

Author: Dan Honeycutt

Date: 07:58:40 09/13/04

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On September 13, 2004 at 02:21:18, Scott Gasch wrote:

>On September 13, 2004 at 00:16:55, Dan Honeycutt wrote:
>
>>On September 12, 2004 at 14:22:08, Scott Gasch wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>I tried this with mixed results.  Overall my ECM/20 score dropped.  Now I am
>>>thinking about what is wrong with this idea.  For one, I use PVS so doing
>>>anything based on alpha in the search could cause problems.  Imagine searching
>>>some line with a=b-1, deciding to extend based on that alpha, finding something
>>>great, researching with a real a..b window, deciding not to extend based on the
>>>new alpha, and missing the "greatness".
>>>
>>
>>I don't understand what "new alpha" you are talking about.  I do the scout
>>search with a window of alpha, alpha + 1.  If the search fails I research with
>>alpha, beta.  If it's a reduction (which I expected to fail low but didn't) I
>>research with normal depth.  If it's an extension I leave depth alone - hoping
>>to find that "greatness".
>>
>>Dan H.
>
>Ok so what I'm saying is this: you do a scout search where alpha = beta - 1.
>Minimal window.  Now, your search does something, anything, based on the current
>value of alpha.  Maybe it decides to extend or not.  Maybe it does extended
>futility pruning.  Whatever.  Based on this decision you search some tree and
>find something that causes a fail high.
>
>Now your minimal window search has failed high, so you re-search the same tree.
>This time say alpha = beta - 100.  So again you search the same move with a
>different window.  And because your search is doing things based on the current
>value of alpha... and because the current value of alpha is not the same as when
>you were searching with a minimal window, this time you decide not to do
>something.  Like extend a critical position.  Or prune a critical move.  You
>search a much different tree.  Now your search returns failing low!
>

OK I see where the "new alpha" comes from - your fail hi/lo carries back to the
root.

>So from the caller's standpoint you had a non-first move... you did a MWS which
>failed high.  You researched it and it failed low.  What do you do?
>

I think first you always assume your search is unstable so you never raise alpha
on a fail high nor lower beta on a fail low.

>My point is that doing things in search based on the current value of alpha is
>dangerous and can hurt search stability.
>
>Scott

If you are going to do extensions and reductions beyond basic stuff you need
some idea of where you stand relative to alpha and beta.  I don't know the
answers to your concerns so my solution is simply to ignore it.

Dan H.




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