Author: Howard Exner
Date: 09:16:15 01/08/99
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On January 08, 1999 at 10:24:45, Michael J Fitch wrote: >On January 08, 1999 at 08:06:03, Matthew Herman wrote: > >>On January 08, 1999 at 04:22:09, Howard Exner wrote: >> >>>b5k1/7p/4p1pP/4P1P1/8/8/8/N5K1 w >>> >>>Here is a position based on a game between Cm6000 and Fritz 5.32. >>>( the recent game with the move d3 thread). >>>I created this position to see if Chess programs have >>>an accurate assessment of the relative values that the Bishop and >>>Knight have. Material is equal yet all endgame authors I've read usually >>>comment on positions like this in the following manner - "White has >>>a huge advantage as all the pawns are on the same side of the board. >>>Furthermore whites pawns cannot be attacked and once the powerfull >>>white Knight reaches f6 the game will be over." >>> >>> >>>How will programs eventually come to deal with assessing this position >>>correctly? Will this be a kind of position that programs will never >>>quite understand? Do any programs penalize the bishop here or >>>conversely, give the Knight extra value in this position? >> >>By the way .. in this position it isn't so easy to get the knight to f6 .. (the >>Bishop goes to f5 and the k to e7 and it is really hard to penetrate from there. >>One problem with programs dealing with this, is that the bishop has a *wide* >>open diagonal .. so therefore it might think it to be active instead of bad. > >Mr Herman lets assume that the pawn structure is the same black Ke7 and >Bf5.Whites Kc5 and Ne3 .White to move win by Nxf5 if exf5 kxd5 and the pass >pawn will queen and if gxf5 g6 [a(if hxg6 h7) [b(if kf8 gxh7 queen) >I played over this game several times and the Bishop can't stop the Night from >getting to f6.On move 46 instead of Bc4 black had to play Bxe2 put his king on >d7 and move his rook back and forth on the seventh and eighth ranks and the game >is a draw.I hope one of these years(soon) that chess programs will give the >correct positional value,evaluation and assessment of these kinds of positions I remember how effortlessly I used to beat chess programs when on the white side of a Sicilian I was able to get my Knight on d5 vs a dark squared black bishop. The programs usually assessed this as equal as they were not programmed with that knowledge of the strong knight outpost. I realize this is not an easy task for programmers as they need to have their programs distingush what characteristics make the knight and bishop strong or weak. I sometimes feel we as chess software users are like Captain Picard who often said to his crew of technicians,"Make it so!" So I will say, "I want programs to have a dynamic assessment of the relative value of bishops and knights" - "Make it so!" :)
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