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Subject: Re: The opening book is extreamly important for a chess engine.....Jorge....

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 16:05:38 09/22/04

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On September 22, 2004 at 17:12:45, George Tsavdaris wrote:

>On September 22, 2004 at 10:41:24, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On September 22, 2004 at 08:40:00, martin fierz wrote:
>>
>>>On September 22, 2004 at 07:53:38, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 22, 2004 at 06:56:45, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>it's definitely not nonsense. i agree that the engine won't find a better (or
>>>>>>>the best according to the book), but a weak engine will make real blunders in
>>>>>>>the opening while a strong engine might just play a slightly inferior move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Strong engines don´t just play slightly inferior moves in the opening.
>>>>>>They play often complete nonsense without book.
>>>>>>I think we have discussed enough examples here in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>>of course - but you are guilty of selective perception.
>>>>
>>>>I´m not guilty of anything.
>>>>I was referring to:
>>>>"If the engine is strong enough to find better moves by itself then opening book
>>>>is not needed".
>>>>Engines generally won´t find better moves by itself than Top GMs in home
>>>>preparation. No matter how strong they get.
>>>>The opening book is needed as long as engines have no clue about long term
>>>>strategies.
>>>>Some simple development rules are not enough since there exist by far too many
>>>>exceptions.
>>>>
>>>>you have noted the
>>>>>examples discussed here. if you took 1000 opening positions from somewhere, and
>>>>>looked which moves GMs play, i believe that strong engines would play the same
>>>>>moves very often (ie. 80-95%). weak engines on the other hand...
>>>>
>>>>I also played 80-95% GM moves in the past.
>>>>Unfortunately the 5-20% "non-GM moves" made the difference.
>>>
>>>duh! your 5-20% are probably real blunders. top engines will not play serious
>>>blunders that often...
>>
>>Of course they will.
>>There are serious strategical blunders and serious tactical blunders.
>>Without books top engines make many serious blunders in the opening.
>>
>
>True, but the following is true also:
>"Without books top human GM's (will) make many serious blunders in the opening."
>
> All human GM's use the hundreds years of experience, that the previous games of
>top GM's has given us. Do you think if a 2700 human GM wouldn't know the
>previous theory that he would play good opening moves?

A human chessplayer simply never plays without "book" in classical chess.

The discussion is about importance of opening books for the engines.


>
>>Michael



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