Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 10:31:55 09/23/04
Go up one level in this thread
On September 23, 2004 at 01:44:08, Uri Blass wrote: >On September 23, 2004 at 01:31:37, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On September 22, 2004 at 06:58:33, martin fierz wrote: >> >>>On September 22, 2004 at 05:56:02, Vikrant Malvankar wrote: >>> >>>>It is not a benefit for a weak engine as it will also probably play weak moves >>>>in the middlegame which will be properly exploited by the stronger engine. Dont >>>>u think so. >>> >>>it's not the issue whether a strong engine will beat a weak engine. that is so >>>by definition :-) >>> >>>the question is: take 2 engines of approximately equal playing strength, give >>>one of them a good book, and look what happens in a match. >>> >>>i believe that for 2 weak engines the difference will be larger in the match >>>result than for 2 strong engines. >>> >>>now we only need somebody to test this hypothesis :-) >>> >>>cheers >>> martin >> >>Hi, >> >>I made very many tests and I can make statements on this matter: >> >>1. A program stronger 150 points than another will win nearly all games no >>matter how bad it comes out from the openings. >>2. The stronger the program is the most important the book is. Of course weak >>lines should be checked and removed to avoid loosing positions. >>3. The weaker the program is the less the book is important. The reason is that >>it will find very many positions where it does not know how to play them. >> >>P.N. Do not take the Shredder - Hydra example to state the opposite, because I >>knew we had some weak lines in the book, but for personal reasons could not work >>on them. >> >>Of course anybody can state the opposite, but my statements are supported by >>thousand of games and more than 100 engines/prototype testing at all level and >>with very many different harware. >> >>I have no time and williness to do deeper into these matters, so it is up to you >>to believe me or not. >> >>Sandro > >At the very weak level books are not important because the program that get >better position cannot use it. > >At the very high level books are also not important because the program can find >better moves by itself. No, this is today totally wrong in at least 95% cases. It depends on the positions, but in some positions they should search at 64/108 to be able to do it and I do not think any chess program is able to reach those depths now. I have made several tests running fast harware for more than one day and the moves and the evaluation they got was poor compared to real ones. Maybe what you state will be true in 20 years from now, but not before. > >I think that books becomes more important when the level become stronger but >later becomes less important when the level become stronger and the only >question is if the top programs got the level when it starts to become less >important or still did not get that level. No, if the book will keep up with theory evolution and will be "adjusted" to the new strength level... > >Uri >Uri Sandro
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