Author: Aaron Gordon
Date: 01:51:15 09/29/04
Go up one level in this thread
On September 29, 2004 at 04:01:50, Russell Reagan wrote: >On September 29, 2004 at 03:59:30, enrico carrisco wrote: > >>On September 29, 2004 at 03:54:07, Russell Reagan wrote: >> >>>On September 29, 2004 at 03:07:23, enrico carrisco wrote: >>> >>>>How much bandwidth does CCC currently take? I've heard "alot" and "high" but >>>>that doesn't really pinpoint things. The $4,400 / 6 months estimate would >>>>essentially be the price of a full T1 right off the hop. I can't imagine any >>>>text-based forum to come close to using a full T1 -- even in peak login times. >>> >>>The ISP costs $599.40 per year. >> >>I wasted like 3 hours a few weeks ago searching the archives for the messages I >>missed about this.. Is this an ISP figure from Steve? If you have the entire >>message handy -- could you just repost it for the sake of this thread? (I've >>already got to optimize my drive from the last 3,000,000 message files I >>downloaded, unzipped and then searched through..) :P >> >>-elc. > > >Subject: Here are the details of CCC/CTF expenses.... and a plea to donate. >From: Steven Schwartz >E-mail: icd@icdchess.com >Message Number: 384539 >Date: August 26, 2004 at 13:15:44 > >There are three major tangible parts to CCC/CTF expenses: > 1) The cost of hosting from ISP > 2) Payment to Tim for 24 hour technical support > 3) Payment to me for oversight of the board > >There are several intangible costs: > 1) Lost sales due to having posts on the board promoting: > a) competitor's products > b) programmer direct sales > c) sales of items we do not sell > >As far as the first group - per year: > 1) The ISP = $599.40 > 2) Tim's support 24/7 = $2340 > 3) My time - average of 4 hours a week - including reading all moderator >email, all complaint emails from members about other member's posts, decision >making, responding to requests for passwords, communicating with Tim almost >daily about CCC related issues, setting up and running elections, emailing >membership about elections, resolving conflicts, speaking with my attorney about >possible CCC related issues, liaison between ISP and Tim when problems pop up, >requesting that Tim add or modify features, etc. etc. etc... "paid" at a rate of >$7 an hour (minimum wage) = $1456 > >That is an expense which we lay out yearly of $4395.40. This does not include >any legal related expenses that have/might come about. > >I cannot quantify what we lose from the board promoting other's products, but >perhaps it equals what we make from being associated with the board. > >There are 5439 active CCC/CTF email addresses right now. If I had to guess, we >probably have between 500 and 1000 who either post or lurk in a typical month. > >The bad news is that when we run an election, we get all of 200 members who step >up to vote, and I have grave concerns that a plea for donations will affect, >maybe, that small a number or less. > >I have projected that the degradation of the chess software and stand-alone >market has meant that we have paid the CCC/CTF bills, in their entirety, for >that long which, according to my accountant, at least, is a total 3 year expense >of $13,186.20. > >I am sure that some of you resent the fact that I have included a fee for myself >in the figures above. However, that is just for accounting purposes. I do not, >and never have, received a penny from operating the CCC, but I have certainly >dedicated hundreds of hours (in the last three years alone) which certainly, if >I were not busy with administering the CCC site, would have allowed me to make >more than minimum wage. I can not count how many times I was in the middle of an >ICD project when a frantic email came in from CCC about one thing or another. > >What it all comes down to is that you all see a smoothly running forum because >we make it that way. Just because someone volunteers to host the CCC does not >mean that everything will run the same way. There is LOTS more going on that the >typical member does not see. Just ask the moderators. > >So, I will follow through on what I said last night. I would like to ask for >donations to help defray the expenses here. I think our expending over $13,000 >over the last three years has shown our dedication to this project (and if you >are still puzzled by my "pay", make that $9000+). I would like the membership >now to step up and take on some of the burden. > >I have guaranteed to keep CCC/CTF up and running as it has been for at least 6 >months. If donations pay the expenses, we can run on indefinitely. > >Should donations stop and the expenses mount, I will again make a plea. If that >does not work, I will give the membership plenty of time to move elsewhere. > >I think I have covered everything. If I have not, please ask and I will try to >answer all questions. > >I will put up the donation information in a short while, but I am leaving >tonight for a long weekend without a computer, thank goodness, so if I do not >answer today, I will by Monday. > >Please donate!!! >Steve >P.S. The CTF is an extremely small drain on resourse. It does not add to the ISP >expense nor does Tim get paid more and I have not attributed any time devoted to >CTF to my own "allocation". It looks like to me someone is just getting tired of running the board, the passion is gone. In that case someone else needs to take over. Someone needs to volunteer to run it for free and have small non-required donations to cover the connection cost. That seems reasonable. Also with the new bulletin board software donating members get extra features, like a personalized icon, a thing that would say, "CCC Supporter" so everyone knows you support the board. You'll also get extra slots for email and all that stuff. Nothing fancy, but it helps. They did this stuff for free, on their own free will. I don't think any of the above (save internet fees) should apply. How many people do you know that do work for free, then one day they decided.. "I know I've done all this stuff for free.. but I changed my mind, now you owe me $2k". Doing favors and then asking something for it is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I am appreciative of them running the board for so long. It has been a great source of knowledge. I'm talking with a friend about setting up another chess forum (using the vBulletin I talked about) incase the CCC goes under. It's not a for sure thing, but it should be nice if it does come about. Won't only be for computer chess, but all things chess. Various rooms for stuff.. like one for Development, one for PC Computer chess, Dedicated computer chess, Commercial Engines, Amateur Engines, etc. Each room would have their own set of moderators. People could directly post screenshots, pictures, attachments, whatever they'd like. Anyway, it's something to think about. I would like to hear if anyone supports (support doesn't = money) this idea, if you do this could possibly become a reality.
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