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Subject: Re: The Null Move Killer

Author: Stuart Cracraft

Date: 23:54:32 09/29/04

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On September 30, 2004 at 00:51:07, Ross Boyd wrote:

>On September 29, 2004 at 23:52:15, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>
>>[D] 4r1k1/p1qr1p2/2pb1Bp1/1p5p/3P1n1R/1B3P2/PP3PK1/2Q4R w - - bm Qxf4;
>>
>>In this position I had everything turned on and got the solution
>>in a little more than 1 1/2 minutes:
>>
>> 1/11  g2f1  0.01 -953      945 g2f1 f4d5
>>                                g2f1 f4d5
>> 2/12  g2f1  0.01 -953     1644
>>                                g2f1 f4d5 c1g5
>> 3/12  g2f1  0.02 -953     5064
>>                                g2f1 f4d5 c1g5 d5f6
>> 4/20  g2f1  0.09 -953    20655
>>                                g2f1 f4d5 b3d5 c6d5 c1c7 d6c7 f1g1
>> 5/22  g2f1  0.65 -953   168943
>>                                g2f1 b5b4 b3a4 f4d5 f6g5 d5e7
>> 6/26  g2f1  2.59 -953   620310
>>                                g2f1 b5b4 mtmt
>> 7/32> g2f1 60.58 -552 14192153 g2f1 e8c8 c1b1 f4d5 b1e4 d6b4 f6e5 c7b6
>>                                g2f1 e8c8 c1b1 f4d5 b1e4 d6b4
>> 7/34  c1f4 99.42 5113 24537823 c1f4 e8e6 f4g5 d7e7 b3e6 e7e6 h1d1 d6e7 f6e7
>>                                c1f4 e8e6 f4g5 d7e7 b3e6 e7e6 h1d1
>>
>>
>>I turned off null move (R=2) and got the solution in about 11 seconds:
>>
>>Alpha=-1332 Beta=-531 Maxdepth=9999999 MaxTime=99999999
>> 1/11 g2f1  0.01 -953      908 g2f1 f4d5
>>                                g2f1 f4d5
>> 2/12 g2f1  0.01 -953     1565
>>                                g2f1 f4d5 c1g5
>> 3/14 g2f1  0.07 -953    20084
>>                                g2f1 f4d5 c1g5 d5f6
>> 4/22 g2f1  0.60 -953   131543
>>                                g2f1 f4d5 b3d5 c6d5 c1c7 d6c7 f1g1
>> 5/26>g2f1  6.80 -552  1607444
>>                                g2f1 b5b4 b3a4 f4d5 f6g5 d5e7
>> 5/36 c1f4 10.70 2260  2466497 c1f4 d6f4 h4h5 g6h5 h1h5 f4h6 h5h6 c7g3 g2g3 d7d6
>>
>>                                c1f4 d6f4 h4h5 g6h5 h1h5 f4h6 h5h6 c7g3 g2g3 d7d
>>
>>So now my question is, would it make sense to consider an idea of
>>disabling null move under additional circumstances if those
>>circumstances can be identified.
>>
>>   endgame
>>   side to move in check
>>   inside principal variation
>>   last move a null move
>>
>>These are the ones I disable for -- I don't disable null move for
>>any material-related or alpha/beta related measures but perhaps
>>I should. Are any in common use?
>>
>>Stuart
>
>Hi Stuart,
>I'll dodge your question and cut to the chase.
>
>You are seeing in action the weakness of nullmove when paired with a dumb
>qsearch.  MATE THREAT extensions help to a certain extent, HOWEVER, to solve
>WAC141 instantly you can generate 'quiet' checks in first ply of qsearch. (That
>is, if your capture search has not produced a beta cut, you then try generating
>non-capture checks and search them as well).
>
>This will extend the false horizons created by recursive nullmove and it
>complements the MATE THREAT extension very nicely. Note, the tree doesn't
>explode because you only do it when all the captures failed.. and then only at
>1st ply of qsearch.... so the overhead is not too bad.
>
>TRACE now solves WAC141 on a P3-450 in half a second. I can tell you that before
>implementing those quiet checks at ply 1 of qsearch it took over 3 minutes to
>solve it.
>
>YMMV... well actually, barring bugs - it's guaranteed to solve your problem.
>
>Ross

What has the above done to your program's other results on test suites
and against components, all the same ones you faced before the change.

Stuart



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