Author: Mark Young
Date: 21:12:25 10/16/04
Go up one level in this thread
On October 16, 2004 at 05:30:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>On October 16, 2004 at 05:14:56, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>
>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1956
>>
>>What do you think about David Levy Statement:
>>
>>"Above all, we learned in Bilbao how difficult it is for a GM to play the best
>>moves often enough to win against a top program. When two GMs play each other,
>>each can expect his opponent to make some inaccuracies during a game, so that
>>one mistake will often be balanced by a subsequent mistake from the opponent.
>>Programs are not like that. The best programs play at a consistently high level,
>>so much so that, after a program leaves its openings book, only very rarely will
>>it make a move that gives much away. A human player, even though he might be
>>able to play 2750 level chess for 95% of his moves, is somewhat more fragile,
>>and for the remaining 5% of the time he will often play the second best or third
>>best move when only the best will do. It is moments like that that frequently
>>determine the outcome of a GM vs computer game – give a beast a single chance
>>and it will pounce."
>
>Kramnik and kasparov did tactical mistakes against machines and it is better if
>they do not play chess against machines again.
>Kramnik should not get a prize for doing tactical blunders.
>
>Smirin is the last human to beat the machine and for some reason the sponsors do
>not suggest him another match.
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2002.04.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Deep Junior"]
[Black "Smirin, Ilya "]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C56"]
[BlackElo "2702"]
[Annotator "Frederic"]
[PlyCount "132"]
{North: Amazing, the queens are still on the board! Feivel: 1-0.} 1. e4 e5 2.
Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 {Smirin: I don't usually play this with black.} 4...
Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. Re1 d5 7. Bxd5 Qxd5 8. Nc3 Qh5 {Smirin: But I didn't have a
problem here. When I was a child I saw some games like this, so I remembered
the next few moves.} 9. Nxe4 Be6 10. Bg5 Bd6 11. c4 {
Smirin: I dfon't think Black has any problems here.} 11... O-O 12. c5 Be5 13.
Nxe5 Qxd1 14. Raxd1 Nxe5 15. Rxd4 {TheVish: Nc6 - looks equalish} 15... Nc6 16.
Ra4 {Time: 1.01:0.42} 16... Rfe8 17. Bf4 {
Time: 59:41. SE: Tearing along pretty quickly to the standard draw.} 17... Bd5
{David: Comps don't seem to play very aggressively against Smirin. Did they
select some kind of passive play for the computers? Defensive?} 18. Re3 ({
DThunder:} 18. Re3 b5 19. cxb6 cxb6 20. Nc3 Rxe3 21. Bxe3 Rd8 22. Nxd5 Rxd5 23.
f3 f5 24. Rc4 Rd6 25. Bf4 Re6 26. h3 Kf7 $11) 18... b5 19. cxb6 {
TheVish: this game is pretty boring. The computer's tired?} 19... cxb6 20. Nc3
Be6 21. Nb5 {TheVish: There are only so many ways to describe this game. But
wait, it's getting mildly interesting.} 21... Bd7 {Time: 54:31} 22. h4 {
Shay: Basically Simirin's strategy so far was to simplify. TheVish: Na5 should
draw. Smirin: At this stage it was completely equal and I lost interest in the
game. You saw theresult!} 22... Rxe3 {Time: 52:28} 23. Bxe3 {
TheVish: Is Nd4 possible?} 23... Na5 24. Rb4 Nc6 {
TheVish: These things don't allow this stuff.} 25. Re4 Re8 26. Rxe8+ Bxe8 27.
f3 {Time: 47:27} 27... f6 28. Kf2 Bd7 29. g4 {Time: 45:26} 29... Kf7 {
Curious: The programmers have to figure out a way to let the computers play
for wins at all cost and avoid the draws.} 30. Kg3 Be6 {Curious: Smirin never
had any intention to beating the computers. This is proof. He didn't avoid
queen exchanges.} 31. b3 Ke7 (31... Nb4 {and this is an immediate draw (Smirin)
}) 32. Bc1 Kf7 33. Nd6+ Kg8 {time: 37:25} 34. Bd2 {Smirin: It's still an easy
draw, but somehow I didn't want to think. Junior carried out a simple and
correct plan to gain spach on the board.} 34... Kf8 (34... a5 35. Be3 Nb4 {
Smirin: This is a simple plan, you don't need to be a GM to see it. I think
this is an elementary draw.}) 35. Bc3 Ke7 {Curious: I'm betting that the
computer engines aren't pruning the drawing lines. This means that if there
is a drawish line...the computer will calculate that line and even use it as
part of it's arsenal.} 36. Nb5 Kd7 {Time: 33:24} ({
Smirin: Here I should have played} 36... g6 {
Although it is slightly worse it is still a draw.}) 37. h5 Ke7 38. Kf4 h6 39.
Bb2 Kf7 40. Nd6+ Kg8 41. Bc3 Kf8 (41... a5 {may be the right idea.}) 42. Ke4
Ke7 43. Nf5+ Kf7 44. Bd2 Kf8 {Time: 22:22} (44... a5 {
should still draw. The idea is to play ...a4 (Smirin)}) 45. Bf4 {
Smirin: Now I have real problems, caused by playing senseless moves.} 45... Kf7
46. Bd6 Kg8 47. f4 Kf7 (47... a5 {should still be a draw (Smirin)}) 48. Ba3 Kg8
49. Ne3 Kh8 50. f5 Bf7 51. Bd6 {Smirin: Now White has real winning chances.}
51... a5 52. Nd5 b5 53. Nc7 a4 54. Ne6 axb3 55. axb3 Kg8 56. b4 {
Smirin: I didn't see this strong move!} 56... Kh8 57. Kd5 Nd8 58. Bf4 Kg8 59.
Kd6 Nxe6 60. fxe6 Be8 61. Ke7 Bc6 62. Kd8 Kf8 63. Be3 Kg8 64. Kc7 ({
Smirin: After} 64. Bc5 {I would have resigned because of th Zugzwang. But
White can return to the position again.} {
Amir Ban: My guess is that Junior was looking at} 64... g6 65. hxg6 Kg7 66. e7
Kxg6 67. e8=Q+ Bxe8 68. Kxe8 Kg5 {and evaluating it as less than +3 at a
distance (though this is an easy win up close), hence the fudging.}) 64... Be8
65. Bc1 Kf8 {Time: 15:8} 66. Kd6 Kg8 {Smirin: Here the game was aborted
[apparently due to a technical problem]. Of course I am lost and I even
offered my resignation to Shay. He offered to count this as a draw. I refused
because I was lost, and so we decided to replay. Of course I could have
resigned. -- [Game aborted by mutual agreement. It will be repeated from
scratch on a different day.]} *
[d]4b1k1/6p1/3KPp1p/1p5P/1P4P1/8/8/2B5 w - - 0 67
{Smirin: Here the game was aborted
[apparently due to a technical problem]. Of course I am lost and I even
offered my resignation to Shay. He offered to count this as a draw. I refused
because I was lost, and so we decided to replay. Of course I could have
resigned. -- [Game aborted by mutual agreement. It will be repeated from
scratch on a different day.]} *
Point one: This was a set of 4 matches of 2 games each against 4 programs. Not a
single match.
Point Two: Junior had a won game, but shay replayed the game resulting in a
draw for this match.
Point Three: Tiger played with sub-optimal setting in this match. Chess Tiger
played with anti-Human mode on. Not the strongest setting for humans or
computers for this program.
Point Four: GM Smirin did not beat Hiarcs or Junior of Two and one half years
ago.
GM Smirin played very well, but could not win against all the programs, and
should of lost to Junior.
So why would a sponsor pay GM Smirin for a rematch, when computers have played
better players and won.
Shredder Hiarcs Junior Tiger Total
Computers 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 3.0
Ilya Smirin 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 5.0
Is there any way to explain how Smirin won his match against Deep Junior 5-3,
but Kasparov only drew?
B-Alterman: Smirin beat a team of computers
B-Alterman: it was not only Junior but also Tiger and Shredder
B-Alterman: Junior and Hiarcs drew but in the year 2000 it drew 2300 players in
the Israeli league
B-Alterman: nowadays as I have mentioned, it is a much much stronger beast!
B-Alterman: Shay and Amir did an awesome job making it what it is now, the #1
program!
>
>I think that it could be more interesting for the spectators to see smirin
>against the machines.
>
>Uri
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