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Subject: Re: IBM hired the wrong people because it won?

Author: Graham Laight

Date: 09:21:28 01/13/99

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On January 12, 1999 at 09:23:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 11, 1999 at 21:15:47, Graham Laight wrote:
>
>>On January 11, 1999 at 09:33:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>>In the last game kasparov simply replaced the order of moves.
>>>>He played a line that he recommended not to play in his book.
>>>>This is not something that he does all the time.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>Or, depending on who you believe, Kasparov tried that sequence of moves out
>>>against Fritz over and over and won every game, even if fritz did sacrifice
>>>the piece on e6.  To date no computer has been able to win the white side of
>>>this game against a strong human (or computer) opponent.  So even this game
>>>shows that DB is fearsome...
>>
>>I have seen a lot of great wisdom and straight talking common sense from Bob
>>posting on the newsgroups over the years. Mostly, I agree with him - even when
>>I'm on the other side of the discussion.
>>
>>But on this occasion - come on Bob, who are you trying to kid?
>>
>>At the risk of breaching copyright, I quote directly from the book "Kasparov V
>>Deeper Blue" by Daniel King.
>>
>>*** Start Of Quoted Text ***
>>
>>Although this has been seen a few times at grandmaster level, it is known to be
>>a mistake because of...
>>
>>8 Nxe6
>>
>>Garry shook his head in disbelief.
>>
>>He had made a finger-slip allowing a known sacrifice which, of course, was all
>>in Deep Blue's database.
>>
>>*** End Of Quoted Text ***
>>
>>This was written not only by a chess GM, but also a man who was watching Garry
>>on the video monitor.
>>
>>I think that most of us would conclude that Garry made a mistake. Daniel's
>>description is incongruent with the concept of a man with a secret plan who is
>>playing a computer that has no idea about the opponent's emotional reactions.
>>
>>Graham.
>
>I am basing my comment only on comments by the Kasparov team before/after the
>match.  I don't claim that my conjecture is true.  I only claim that it is
>possible.  IE at one of the ACM events, I sat across the board from Ken Thompson
>helping him analyze a position.  He was playing "nuchess" in a decisive game and
>needed a win to win the tournament.  He found a line that looked good and wanted
>other opinions.  It was based on the idea that a computer will often give up a
>piece to win a rook on h1, but it doesn't realize that the knight that captured
>on a1 is trapped and gets lost eventually.  We tried the position on Cray Blitz
>and it fell for it.  So we assumed that Nuchess would also since they weren't
>as fast.  They did, Belle won.
>
>It is certainly possible that as Kasparov played game after game against Fritz
>when preparing for the event, that he noticed that this position could arise and
>that as black, he could thump fritz every time.  And feeling desparate enough
>in game 6, he could certainly have tried to unleash his "trap" only to have it
>backfire.
>
>I make no claim this is true.  Or that it is even probably.  I don't know.  But
>I do know it is definitely 'possible'.  I have seen humans do this many times
>against computers.  One statement Kasparov made was _really_ revealing however.
>Before the match, he made a statement that he thought that DB would be able to
>beat fritz 80-90% of the time.  From results reported by Hsu, this was more than
>just a little "low".  And it could most definitely have led to trying something
>unsound.
>
>And let me point out once again, after playing Nxe6 as white, to date no
>computer has been able to win with the white pieces, against another computer
>or against strong human opposition.  Which means that it is certainly possible
>that Kasparov had noticed this and hoped for a swindle.
>
>That's all I said.  With no idea of how probable it is that this actually
>happened.  But in light of the above, you'd have to agree that it is certainly
>not an impossible scenario?

OK - it's not impossible.

But if it is true, then I don't know what sequence of moves Gary was expecting.

As the game progressed towards conclusion at move 19, it is said that Gary sat
there looking more and more upset.

>I've done this against computers.  At USM we used to have monthly chess club
>tournaments, and when we had an odd number, we would slip in a computer, like
>the Novag supercon or whatever.  And I generally won these games because I'd
>do just such planning.  :)



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