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Subject: Re: Strange ChessTiger 2004 accessment

Author: Harald Faber

Date: 12:37:59 11/10/04

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On November 10, 2004 at 14:14:39, Oreopoulos Kostas wrote:

>[D] 1Q6/3b2pp/p1k1p3/8/4N3/Pp2b3/2q3PP/5R1K b - - 6 1
>
>In that position it evalutates the position as won on both normal and gambit
>styles.
>Not better , but won.


What do you call "won"?

00:00:00.0	-1,24	1	58	Qc2-d3
00:00:00.0	-1,08	2	385	Kc6-d5
00:00:00.0	-0,80	2	610	Kc6-d5 Qb8-b7+ Bd7-c6
00:00:00.0	-0,80	3	806	Kc6-d5 Qb8-b7+ Bd7-c6
00:00:00.0	-0,90	4	3044	Kc6-d5 Qb8-b7+ Bd7-c6
00:00:00.0	-0,80	5	7532	Kc6-d5 Qb8-d6+ Kd5xe4 Qd6xd7 Qc2-c4
00:00:00.0	-1,24	6	17003	Kc6-d5 Qb8-d6+ Kd5xe4 Qd6xd7 b3-b2 Qd7-b7+ Ke4-d4
Qb7xg7+ e6-e5
00:00:00.0	-0,68	6	30407	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 Kc6-d5 Ne4-g3 Bd7-c6 Qb8-d8+ Kd5-c4
00:00:00.1	-1,18	7	102455	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 a6-a5 Qb8-a8+ Kc6-b6 Qa8-d8+ Kb6-b7
Ne4-d6+ Qd3xd6 Re1xe3
00:00:00.4	-0,90	8	420931	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 a6-a5 Qb8-a8+ Kc6-b6 Qa8-d8+ Kb6-b7
Ne4-c3 Be3-b6
00:00:00.7	-1,28	9	703181	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 a6-a5 a3-a4 Kc6-d5 Ne4-g5 Qd3-c3 Re1-d1+
Be3-d4
00:00:02.3	-1,06	10	2318298	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 Kc6-d5 Qb8-b4 b3-b2 Ne4-c3+ Kd5-c6
Qb4xb2 Be3-d2 Re1-c1 Bd2xc1 Qb2xc1
00:00:04.0	-1,40	11	4156880	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 Kc6-d5 Ne4-f2 Qd3-c3 Re1-d1+ Be3-d4
Nf2-d3 a6-a5 Nd3-e5 Qc3-c2
00:00:11.7	-1,72	12	11917714	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 h7-h6 Qb8-e5 a6-a5 Qe5xa5 b3-b2
Qa5-b4 Qd3-d4 Qb4-b8 e6-e5 Qb8-a8+ Kc6-c7
00:00:25.0	-1,82	13	25629578	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 h7-h6 Qb8-e5 Kc6-b6 h2-h3 Bd7-b5
a3-a4 b3-b2 Qe5xb2 Qd3xe4 a4xb5 a6xb5
00:00:50.2	-1,64	14	52061635	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 Kc6-d5 Ne4-f2 Qd3-c3 Re1-d1+ Be3-d4
Nf2-d3 Bd7-b5 Qb8-a8+ Kd5-d6 Qa8-d8+ Bb5-d7 Nd3-b4 b3-b2 Nb4xa6 Qc3-e3
00:01:48.9	-1,86	15	113878605	Qc2-d3 Rf1-e1 Kc6-d5 Ne4-f2 Qd3-c3 Re1-d1+ Be3-d4
Nf2-d3 Bd7-b5 Qb8-a8+ Kd5-d6 Qa8-d8+ Bb5-d7 Nd3-e5 Kd6xe5 Qd8xd7
00:05:54.6	-1,72	15	370114822	Be3-c5 Ne4xc5 Kc6xc5 Qb8-a7+ Kc5-d6 Qa7-d4+ Kd6-c6
Qd4-a4+ Kc6-d6
00:07:47.3	-1,80	16	487660637	Be3-c5 Ne4xc5 Kc6xc5 Qb8-a7+ Kc5-d6 Qa7-d4+ Kd6-c6
Rf1-d1 Bd7-c8 Qd4-d3 Qc2xd3 Rd1xd3 e6-e5
00:30:38.1	-1,66	17	1953547759	Be3-c5 Ne4xc5 Kc6xc5 Qb8-f8+ Kc5-c6 Qf8-f3+
Kc6-d6 Rf1-d1+ Kd6-e7 Qf3-g4 Qc2-c3 Qg4-h4+ Ke7-e8 Qh4xh7 Bd7-b5 a3-a4 Bb5xa4

Is this what shows a won position? I say: Never


>generally i think that there is a flaw in CT2004. It may find some tactics more
>than CT15 but it over-underestimates positions.
>Posibly needs to fine tune its engine.
>
>Its obvious for me, why its beeing crushed by shredder.


Is it? For me it is not.




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