Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 16:46:44 11/18/04
Go up one level in this thread
On November 17, 2004 at 16:19:55, Jan K. wrote: >On November 17, 2004 at 16:02:32, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 17, 2004 at 14:04:06, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On November 17, 2004 at 13:35:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 17, 2004 at 08:39:40, milix wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 17, 2004 at 08:27:47, Jan K. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Under winboard/arena which of the following positions should be claimed(/can be >>>>>>claimed) as drawn by insufficient material-KBKN, KBKNN, KNNKNN? I thought that >>>>>>KBKN can be claimed as a draw, but once this position happened under Fritz GUI, >>>>>>my engine claimed draw and stopped playing but GUI still expected me to move and >>>>>>my engine lost on time. Thx. >>>>> >>>>>[D] knB5/8/1K6/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>White to move and mate in one - so this position is not a draw. The king is in >>>>>the wrong corner. >>>> >>>> >>>>Fine, but what was black's last move? >>>> >>>>Had to be the knight. Which could only have come from a6 or c6 otherwise it >>>>would have captured the white king. Therefore there was a forced draw one move >>>>earlier, where black left the knight on a6/c6 and moved his king instead. >>>> >>>>It's a draw. >>> >>>It is not a draw by insufficient material. >>>A program may evaluate it as 0.00 but not stop moving. >>> >>>Uri >> >>It is a draw by insufficient material so far as I can see. The definition of >>"insufficient material to force checkmate" seems pretty clear. Neither side can >>_force_ checkmate here. > > >Checkmate cannot be forced there, but is this really the right definition of >'draw by insufficient material'? > >This is from (maybe outdated) FIDE chess rules I found: > >9.6. The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot >occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play. >This immediately ends the game. Here is the test to use. You are a TD. Two players walk up to you with a dispute on their game. It is a KB vs KN position. The KN side wants to claim a draw. The KB side wants to play on. You look at the position and verify that mate can't be forced. Do you make them play on? I don't... I can't imagine _any_ TD would, either...
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