Author: Uri Blass
Date: 17:32:03 11/18/04
Go up one level in this thread
On November 18, 2004 at 19:46:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 17, 2004 at 16:19:55, Jan K. wrote: > >>On November 17, 2004 at 16:02:32, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 17, 2004 at 14:04:06, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On November 17, 2004 at 13:35:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 17, 2004 at 08:39:40, milix wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 17, 2004 at 08:27:47, Jan K. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Under winboard/arena which of the following positions should be claimed(/can be >>>>>>>claimed) as drawn by insufficient material-KBKN, KBKNN, KNNKNN? I thought that >>>>>>>KBKN can be claimed as a draw, but once this position happened under Fritz GUI, >>>>>>>my engine claimed draw and stopped playing but GUI still expected me to move and >>>>>>>my engine lost on time. Thx. >>>>>> >>>>>>[D] knB5/8/1K6/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1 >>>>>> >>>>>>White to move and mate in one - so this position is not a draw. The king is in >>>>>>the wrong corner. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Fine, but what was black's last move? >>>>> >>>>>Had to be the knight. Which could only have come from a6 or c6 otherwise it >>>>>would have captured the white king. Therefore there was a forced draw one move >>>>>earlier, where black left the knight on a6/c6 and moved his king instead. >>>>> >>>>>It's a draw. >>>> >>>>It is not a draw by insufficient material. >>>>A program may evaluate it as 0.00 but not stop moving. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>It is a draw by insufficient material so far as I can see. The definition of >>>"insufficient material to force checkmate" seems pretty clear. Neither side can >>>_force_ checkmate here. >> >> >>Checkmate cannot be forced there, but is this really the right definition of >>'draw by insufficient material'? >> >>This is from (maybe outdated) FIDE chess rules I found: >> >>9.6. The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot >>occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play. >>This immediately ends the game. > >Here is the test to use. You are a TD. Two players walk up to you with a >dispute on their game. It is a KB vs KN position. The KN side wants to claim a >draw. The KB side wants to play on. You look at the position and verify that >mate can't be forced. Do you make them play on? > >I don't... > >I can't imagine _any_ TD would, either... I do unless the side with the KN has less than 2 minutes to finish the game and there is no increasement (in these cases players have the right to claim a draw based on the fact that the opponent does not try to win in normal means or that it is impossible to win in normal means) I am not against changing the rules but I cannot decide against the chess rules. The rules decide even if they are not logical. I can add that I do not know about a case when a player lost KB v KN with no forced mate but I know about a case when a player lost K vs KNN by blundering and playing with the king to the corner and it was even between 2 masters. Uri
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