Author: chandler yergin
Date: 21:38:42 11/22/04
Go up one level in this thread
On November 22, 2004 at 17:36:44, Daniel Jackson wrote: >On November 22, 2004 at 12:42:38, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 22, 2004 at 09:48:30, Daniel Jackson wrote: >> >>>On November 22, 2004 at 02:46:23, milix wrote: >>> >>>>On November 21, 2004 at 19:10:31, Daniel Jackson wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 06:22:21, George Tsavdaris wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 04:05:10, Daniel Jackson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 02:42:00, Dan Andersson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If the flag is down it's the truth. But you can stop the clock before and call >>>>>>>>for arbitration. Then the criterion 'win with normal means' is used. IMO a >>>>>>>>hoplessly vague definition. There should be clear guidelines that do not depend >>>>>>>>on subjective decisions. >>>>>>>> I was an arbiter during the last years national championship. There will be an >>>>>>>>addition to the quickplay finish rules from 1 July 2005. It adds the opportunity >>>>>>>>to draw a flagged game: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Article 10.2b: >>>>>>>> If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra >>>>>>>>minutes and the game shall continue in the presence of an arbiter, if possible. >>>>>>>>The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or after a flag has >>>>>>>>fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the final position >>>>>>>>cannot be won by normal means, or that the opponent was not making sufficient >>>>>>>>attempts to win by normal means. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>MvH Dan Andersson >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Well if helpmates are the rule, I disagree. I wouldn't except that, but then I'd >>>>>>>call the arbiter before this could happen anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>IMO it's Insufficient Material. >>>>>> >>>>>>No it isn't. Since black can checkmate white it is not a draw and if white loses >>>>>>on time this is the result of the game. Black wins. >>>>> >>>>>No Black can't, only White can help Black checkmate. It would be called a >>>>>Helpmate, that is why it should be a draw, IMO. >>>> >>>>Chess is a game of helpmates! Or else all games will be draws. So helpmate or >>>>not if a mate is possible no draw by rules can be claimed. And I'm not talking >>>>for quick-finish rules. >>> >>>You are a patzer, you can't force a win with a single B or N or even 2 N's that >>>is why it is called a draw by insufficient material!! >> >>No >>It is not. >> >>Show me the fide rule that say that it is a draw by insufficient material. >> >>It is usually a draw by agreement when players get this position in game with >>increasement when without increasement it is also usually a draw by agreement. >> >>In the second case players will usually not try to win on time because they know >>that the opponent can claim a draw but the reason to accept the draw is that the >>opponent cannot win by normal means and not insufficient material. >> >>Uri > >It's insufficient other than a helpmate....this is so trival. Mistakes are made! BOTH PLayers must agree to a Draw. THe TD can use his dicretion if one complains loud enough..
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