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Subject: Re: This is Idiotic!

Author: Daniel Jackson

Date: 19:08:14 11/23/04

Go up one level in this thread


On November 23, 2004 at 00:38:42, chandler yergin wrote:

>On November 22, 2004 at 17:36:44, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
>>On November 22, 2004 at 12:42:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On November 22, 2004 at 09:48:30, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 22, 2004 at 02:46:23, milix wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 19:10:31, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 06:22:21, George Tsavdaris wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 04:05:10, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 21, 2004 at 02:42:00, Dan Andersson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the flag is down it's the truth. But you can stop the clock before and call
>>>>>>>>>for arbitration. Then the criterion 'win with normal means' is used. IMO a
>>>>>>>>>hoplessly vague definition. There should be clear guidelines that do not depend
>>>>>>>>>on subjective decisions.
>>>>>>>>> I was  an arbiter during the last years national championship. There will be an
>>>>>>>>>addition to the quickplay finish rules from 1 July 2005. It adds the opportunity
>>>>>>>>>to draw a flagged game:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Article 10.2b:
>>>>>>>>> If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra
>>>>>>>>>minutes and the game shall continue in the presence of an arbiter, if possible.
>>>>>>>>>The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or after a flag has
>>>>>>>>>fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the final position
>>>>>>>>>cannot be won by normal means, or that the opponent was not making sufficient
>>>>>>>>>attempts to win by normal means.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>MvH Dan Andersson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well if helpmates are the rule, I disagree. I wouldn't except that, but then I'd
>>>>>>>>call the arbiter before this could happen anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>IMO it's Insufficient Material.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No it isn't. Since black can checkmate white it is not a draw and if white loses
>>>>>>>on time this is the result of the game. Black wins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No Black can't, only White can help Black checkmate. It would be called a
>>>>>>Helpmate, that is why it should be a draw, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>>Chess is a game of helpmates! Or else all games will be draws. So helpmate or
>>>>>not if a mate is possible no draw by rules can be claimed. And I'm not talking
>>>>>for quick-finish rules.
>>>>
>>>>You are a patzer, you can't force a win with a single B or N or even 2 N's that
>>>>is why it is called a draw by insufficient material!!
>>>
>>>No
>>>It is not.
>>>
>>>Show me the fide rule that say that it is a draw by insufficient material.
>>>
>>>It is usually a draw by agreement when players get this position in game with
>>>increasement when without increasement it is also usually a draw by agreement.
>>>
>>>In the second case players will usually not try to win on time because they know
>>>that the opponent can claim a draw but the reason to accept the draw is that the
>>>opponent cannot win by normal means and not insufficient material.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>It's insufficient other than a helpmate....this is so trival.
>
>Mistakes are made!
>BOTH PLayers must agree to a Draw.
>THe TD can use his dicretion if one complains loud enough..

Yeah, well that is obvious....



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