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Subject: Re: mate-in -11 (CM9 T05)

Author: John Merlino

Date: 08:58:57 11/30/04

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On November 29, 2004 at 13:13:04, F. Huber wrote:

>On November 29, 2004 at 12:27:32, John Merlino wrote:
>
>>On November 29, 2004 at 12:00:36, F. Huber wrote:
>>
>>>On November 29, 2004 at 10:54:04, Heiner Marxen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 28, 2004 at 17:43:44, F. Huber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 28, 2004 at 17:17:30, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>>...
>>>>>>The King is undoubtedly the best mate solving engine available, sometimes being
>>>>>>even faster than programs dedicated to these kinds of problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, ´sometimes´ might be correct. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>But ´undoubtedly´ is _undoubtedly_ wrong - at least _I´m_ in doubt about it!
>>>>>Did you ever hear about ´Gustav´, ´Chest´, ´ChestUCI´, .... ? ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Franz.
>>>>
>>>>Hello Franz,
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure John knows quite well about Chest.  We both compared results of
>>>>Chest and ChessMaster numerous times for mate positions.
>>>>And CM is really amazing at it.  While there is no guarantee that CM
>>>>will find the shortest mate, it very frequently does so, and faster
>>>>than Chest most of the time.
>>>>
>>>>The terminology is a bit confusing at times.
>>>>While Chest (and Gustav) are "mate provers",
>>>>CM (and most playing programs) are "mate finders".
>>>>The term "mate solver" is a bit ambiguous, so I would like to see used
>>>>the former two terms... well.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Heiner
>>>
>>>Hello Heiner,
>>>
>>>of course I´m also sure, that John knows Chest - therefore my smilie ";-)" at
>>>the end of my ´question´.
>>>
>>>It were only these two words ´sometimes´ and ´undoubtedly´ which caused me to
>>>answer to his posting at all:
>>>
>>>From my test suite of mate problems I could easily give you 100 positions
>>>where Chest would be absolutely the fastest, or another 100 where the same
>>>is true for Gustav - and of course I´ll also find 100 for TheKing!
>>>So _who_ of them is really ´the best´?
>>>
>>>And therefore the statement "The King is undoubtedly the best mate solving
>>>engine available" is simply an exaggeration IMO.
>>>(if he would have said "... one of the best ..." - no problem! ;-))
>>>
>>>BTW, in its default mode also Gustav is _not_ a "mate prover" -
>>>it uses similar restrictions as my additions in ChestUCI (e.g. flight squares
>>>and mate threats), and so there´s no guarantee for a shortest mate.
>>>This is only the case, if you switch Gustav to ´brute force´ mode -
>>>but in this mode Gustav is not really fast at all.
>>>
>>>So my (quite general) conclusion in short:
>>>Alybadix, Chest, GoliathMate, Gustav, King, Popeye ... (in pure alphabetical
>>>order!) is undoubtedly ;-) _the_ best group of mate finders/solvers/provers! :)
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Franz.
>>
>>Franz,
>>
>>I meant no offense to any of the great and popular "mate provers" (to use
>>Heiner's term). I meant to say that, of all the "mate finders" (i.e.
>>chess-playing engines) I believe that The King is undoubtedly the best at
>>solving mates quickly and accurately.
>>
>>I was not making any direct comparison between The King and programs like Chest,
>>since I have no experience with any from the latter group (other than reading
>>posts on this board).
>>
>>Once again, my apologies for any confusion,
>>
>>jm
>
>Hi John,
>
>there´s absolutely no need for you to apologize for _anything_ -
>I really didn´t understand your statement as ´offense´ at all! ;-)
>
>And - to say the truth:
>I like TheKing very much, also as a mate finder! :)
>Whenever I get a mate problem with an unknown number of moves (or even if it´s
>not sure to be a mate at all), TheKing is my first choice to analyze such a
>dubious position. And most of the time he´s doing very well in such cases ... :)
>
>Well, it would be fantastic, if we could combine all those mate solvers
>(I´ve mentioned above) to _one_ single engine -
>this would really be ´The absolute mate engine´!
>(maybe I´ll give it a try and write an interface for all of them ... ;-))
>
>Best regards,
>Franz.

That was a very great compliment you have paid to Johan and The King. And, if
you could write that interface, I have a feeling you would be able to sell quite
a few copies to members of this board (and many others as well!).

Good Luck!

jm



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