Author: Kurt Utzinger
Date: 01:31:38 12/04/04
Go up one level in this thread
On December 04, 2004 at 03:10:07, George Sobala wrote:
Kurt
I am intrigued by your results, because in my over 150 games with Gandalf
6.0, the only engine it has lost a match to is Shredder 8.
I wish to attempt to replicate one of your Nunn-2 tests, but my computer
is about twice as fast as yours, so I am thinking of trying aprroximately
a 40/20'+40/20'+20' time control. I wonder if you could post a sample
position and a few lines of analysis by Gandalf-6 on your Athlon-1300 to
show node-counts and time-to-ply, and I will fine tune the time difference
to be as closely equivalent as possible.
Hi George
The Nunn2 matches/games (40'/40) are played on different machines
- P3 650/32 MB hash
- P3 800/64 MB hash
- Duron 1.3/64 MB hash
but this does not bother me as long as the conditions for
both engines participated in a match are identical. If
Gandalf 6.0 only brings good results on fast hardware
this may be due to a bad design of the engine considering
the fact that the majority of computer chess friends are
still not working with very fast hardware. I however do
not believe this is the case. In the "CSS Rangliste",
the running test of Klaus Wlotzka, see the following link
http://www.computerschach.de/magazin/rangliste_english/
the extrapolation (projection) shows that Gandalf 6.0
could get rank 8 of all engines. This seems realistic
to me (although I eventually expect rank 6 or 7) and
this would of course be a fine improvement over
Gandalf 5.1 and 4.32. One thing remains to mention:
The latesd Gandalf 6.0 leaves for me a stronger impression
in analysing test positions than in practical games. No
idea why this is so (or is my mpression wrong?).
Below an example of a Nunn2 game on P3 800/56 MB hash
for Gandalf 6.0
[Event "P3 800/64, 40'/40+40'/40+40'"]
[Site "P3 800/64"]
[Date "2004.11.24"]
[Round "18"]
[White "Gandalf 6.0"]
[Black "Aristarch 4.50"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E11"]
[Annotator "0.03;0.06"]
[PlyCount "85"]
{W=12.8 ply; 139kN/s; 1 TBAs
B=12.4 ply; 246kN/s
} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3
Bb4+ 4. Bd2 Qe7 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Bxd2+ 7. Nbxd2 d6 8. O-O O-O 9. e4 e5 10. d5
Nb8 11. Ne1 {0.03/15 151} 11... h6 {(Sbd7) 0.06/12 41} 12. Nd3 {0.28/14 75}
12... a5 {(Sbd7) 0.06/11 15} 13. f4 {(h3) 0.22/12 78} 13... exf4 {
(Lg4) -0.35/12 31} 14. gxf4 {(Txf4) 0.25/13 107} 14... Nfd7 {(Sa6) -0.58/12 258
} 15. Re1 {(a3) 0.89/11 76} 15... Na6 {-0.75/12 67} 16. Nb3 {(e5) 0.73/14 137}
16... Nb4 {(Dh4) -0.73/12 89} 17. Nf2 {(Sd4) 0.64/13 74} 17... a4 {-0.65/12 39}
18. Nd4 {0.70/14 59} 18... Qf6 {(Sb6) -0.54/12 91} 19. Qd2 {(Sf5) 0.76/12 93}
19... Na6 {-0.60/12 45} 20. Nf3 {(Sf5) 0.80/12 56} 20... Re8 {(Sb6) -0.49/11 36
} 21. b4 {(e5) 0.86/12 70} 21... axb3 {(a3) -0.56/12 170} 22. axb3 {0.83/13 85}
22... Ndc5 {(Sb6) -0.40/13 128} 23. Ra3 {1.02/13 100} 23... Nd7 {
(Ld7) 0.00/15 285} 24. Rea1 {(Taa1) 1.15/12 73} 24... Nb6 {-0.41/12 26} 25. e5
{(f5) 1.24/12 73} 25... Qg6 {-0.75/10 13} 26. Qe3 {1.02/12 123} 26... Bd7 {
-0.55/11 84} 27. Nd3 {(Se4) 1.02/12 122} 27... Bg4 {(Dg4) -0.43/11 103} 28. Nh4
{(Sd4) 1.31/13 48} 28... Qh5 {-0.52/11 27} 29. Qg3 {1.40/12 77} 29... Be2 {
-0.42/10 15} 30. Be4 {(Lf3) 1.40/11 65} 30... dxe5 {-0.56/10 16} 31. Nxe5 {
1.37/12 65} 31... Nc5 {-0.38/10 15} 32. Rxa8 {1.50/12 61} 32... Nxa8 {
-0.35/11 12} 33. Nf5 {(Lf5) 1.66/12 66} 33... g6 {1.92/14 342} 34. Bc2 {
(Se7+) 1.66/12 50} 34... Nb6 {1.96/13 220} 35. Nd4 {(d6) 1.92/11 69} 35... Ncd7
{1.87/12 76} 36. Nxg6 {(Sxe2) 2.27/11 73} 36... Bg4 {(fxg6) 1.64/11 19} 37. Nh4
{2.78/12 68} 37... Kh8 {3.00/13 68} 38. h3 {3.39/12 101} 38... Be2 {3.46/13 35}
39. Kh2 {3.74/11 51} 39... Nf6 {4.15/12 17} 40. Re1 {4.22/10 41} 40... Bxc4 {
(Tg8) 3.74/8 0} 41. bxc4 {(Txe8+) 5.44/11 60} 41... Rg8 {6.68/15 225} 42. Qf2 {
7.13/12 85} 42... Rg4 {(Sbxd5) 6.21/14 99} 43. Ndf5 {8.57/13 69} 1-0
And here a games 90m+30s on Athlon 1.3
again with 56 MB hash for Gandalf 6.0
[Event "Gan6_Fri8 Ath 1.3/64 90m+30s"]
[Site "Zurich"]
[Date "2004.11.21"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Fritz 8"]
[Black "Gandalf 6.0"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E14"]
[Annotator "-0.22;-0.16"]
[PlyCount "95"]
[EventDate "2004.??.??"]
{W=14.0 ply; 659kN/s B=14.6 ply; 215kN/s} 1. c4 {0} 1... Nf6 {0.01/0 0} 2. d4 {
0} 2... e6 {0.01/0 0} 3. Nf3 {0} 3... b6 {0.01/0 0} 4. e3 {0} 4... Bb7 {
0.01/0 0} 5. Bd3 {0} 5... d5 {0.01/0 0} 6. O-O {0} 6... Bd6 {0.01/0 0} 7. b3 {0
} 7... O-O {0.01/0 0} 8. Bb2 {0} 8... Nbd7 {0.01/0 0} 9. Nc3 {0} 9... Ne4 {
Schwarz letzter Buchzug 0.01/0 0} 10. Ne2 {Weiss letzter Buchzug 0} 10... dxc4
{-0.16/14 742} 11. bxc4 {-0.22/14 349} 11... f5 {(c5) -0.16/13 292} 12. Qb3 {
(c5) -0.07/12 271} 12... c5 {-0.32/12 206} 13. d5 {(Sf4) 0.00/13 188} 13...
exd5 {(De7) -0.35/13 192} 14. cxd5 {0.00/13 159} 14... Ndf6 {-0.32/13 186} 15.
Bc4 {-0.03/13 171} 15... Kh8 {(Tb8) -0.38/13 131} 16. Rfd1 {(Sc3) -0.03/13 214}
16... Rb8 {(Dc7) -0.22/13 336} 17. a4 {-0.10/13 155} 17... a6 {-0.32/13 139}
18. Bxf6 {(Sf4) 0.00/13 177} 18... Qxf6 {-0.57/14 430} 19. Rab1 {0.00/14 282}
19... Bc7 {(g5) -0.54/13 192} 20. Qc2 {0.00/13 144} 20... Rbe8 {
(Tfd8) -0.38/13 423} 21. Nf4 {(Td3) -0.13/14 237} 21... Bxf4 {-0.16/14 256} 22.
exf4 {-0.10/14 50} 22... Nc3 {-0.03/16 213} 23. Rxb6 {0.12/15 157} 23... Qxb6 {
-0.06/16 139} 24. Qxc3 {0.12/13 31} 24... Qh6 {(Td8) -0.06/15 166} 25. Qc1 {
0.25/14 142} 25... Qd6 {0.00/15 147} 26. Ne5 {0.28/14 120} 26... Re7 {
(Tb8) 0.00/15 104} 27. a5 {(Dc2) 0.34/14 157} 27... Rf6 {(La8) 0.00/13 76} 28.
Qb2 {(Db1) 0.43/14 264} 28... Qc7 {(h6) 0.32/14 195} 29. Re1 {(Dc2) 0.50/14 174
} 29... h6 {(Dd8) 0.03/14 75} 30. Qb1 {(Dd2) 0.31/13 146} 30... Kh7 {0.06/12 89
} 31. Rd1 {0.34/13 96} 31... g6 {(Lc8) 0.03/15 72} 32. Qd3 {(h4) 0.37/14 186}
32... Rd6 {(Dd6) 0.03/15 85} 33. h4 {(Dc3) 0.31/14 112} 33... h5 {0.00/15 92}
34. Qa3 {0.31/14 100} 34... Rg7 {(Te8) 0.83/15 209} 35. Rd3 {(Td2) 0.37/14 152}
35... Re7 {0.00/15 61} 36. Qa4 {(Td1) 0.37/14 105} 36... Qd8 {0.00/16 63} 37.
Qa2 {0.37/14 87} 37... Re8 {(La8) 0.00/15 82} 38. Qb2 {(g3) 0.37/13 119} 38...
Qc7 {0.47/13 172} 39. Nf3 {(Td1) 0.53/13 92} 39... Kg8 {(Kh6) 0.19/13 52} 40.
Rb3 {(Sg5) 0.87/14 90} 40... Bc8 {0.86/14 152} 41. Rb6 {1.03/13 77} 41... Re4 {
0.99/13 120} 42. Rc6 {1.18/13 56} 42... Qd8 {1.98/15 125} 43. Rxc5 {1.93/12 39}
43... Bd7 {(Df8) 2.46/14 107} 44. Ng5 {2.18/13 41} 44... Re1+ {(Te7) 2.52/13 53
} 45. Kh2 {2.34/14 51} 45... Bb5 {(Te7) 2.81/13 101} 46. Bxb5 {3.97/13 62}
46... axb5 {5.18/14 92} 47. Rxb5 {4.25/13 44} 47... Re8 {5.05/14 84} 48. a6 {
4.50/12 23} 1-0
And finally an analysis on P4 1.8/56 MB hash for
Gandalf 6.0 under CP-GUI. This PC is equal to
Athlon 1.3
4b2k/ppr1q2p/1np1p2r/2N1N1p1/3PPp2/P2BnP1P/1P3QP1/2R1R1K1 w - - 0 24
00:00:00.2 0.99 4 15452 Rxe3 fxe3 Qxe3 Rc8 Bc4 Nxc4 Rxc4
00:00:00.2 0.80 5 21824 Rxe3 fxe3 Qxe3 Rc8 Bc4 Nxc4 Rxc4 Rd8
00:00:00.3 0.80 5 23010 b3 Qd8
00:00:00.3 0.99 5 26678 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rd8 Kh1
00:00:00.4 0.96 6 44010 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rd8 Kh1 Bf7
00:00:00.7 1.05 7 106911 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rd8 Kh1 a6 Bc4
00:00:01.2 1.02 8 213364 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rf6 Bc4 Nbxc4 bxc4 b6 Ncd3
00:00:02.4 0.96 9 491712 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rf6 Kh1 Rd8 Bc4 Bh5 Qd2 Nbxc4 bxc4
00:00:04.1 0.96 9 890259 Rxe3 fxe3
00:00:05.3 0.96 9 1176706 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rf6 Kh1 Rd8 Bc4 Bh5 Qd2 Nbxc4 bxc4
00:00:07.1 0.96 10 1553350 b3 Rc8 Qb2 Rf6 Kh1 Rd8 Be2 Bh5 Bc4 Nbxc4 bxc4
00:00:09.7 0.96 10 2088650 Qd2 Rc8
00:00:11.8 0.99 10 2530665 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Rf6 b3 Bh5 Bc4 Rd8 Qxa7 Nbxc4
bxc4 Rxd4 Nxb7
00:00:18.3 0.96 11 3967434 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Rf6 b3 Bh5 Bc4 Nbxc4 bxc4 Rff8
00:00:20.0 0.96 11 4294474 b3 Rc8
00:00:20.7 0.96 11 4451906 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Rf6 b3 Bh5 Bc4 Nbxc4 bxc4 Rff8
00:00:40.3 0.99 12 8757995 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Rf6 b3 Bh5 Bc4 Nbxc4 bxc4 Rd8
Qxa7 Rxd4 Nxb7
00:01:08.5 0.99 13 15167226 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Rf6 b3 Bh5 Bc4 Nbxc4 bxc4 Rd8
Qxa7 Rxd4 Nxb7
00:02:35.9 0.99 14 33833212 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Qg7 Qc3 Rb8 Qb4 Qe7 Qa5 Ra8 b3
Bf7
00:06:14.2 1.02 15 81002634 Qd2 Rc8 Qa5 Ra8 Kh1 Qg7 Qc3 Rb8 b3 Rd8 Rb1 Qe7 Bc4
a6 Rec1
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