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Subject: Re: Turning Red Paint Into Blue Paint ???

Author: James T. Walker

Date: 10:09:26 01/18/99

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On January 18, 1999 at 02:36:21, Laurence Chen wrote:

>There has been some posting criticizing the strength of chess engines inability
>to play at the amateur ELO ratings, and let me ask you this, can you turn red
>paint into blue paint? Really, if you go to a paint store and buy red paint, you
>cannot expect the red paint become blue no matter how much dilluting you do to
>it. Red is red, and if you dillute too much it will disappear all together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Chess engines are not paint.  There is no comparison.  What's wrong with
criticism if it's valid?  If Fritz/Rebel or any other company/programer/program
claim that one of it's features is to be able to adjust the strength to your
level so as to give you a competitive feeling in your own class then that's what
it should do!  The fact that they don't consider this important enough to do a
good job simply leaves them open to criticism.  All consumers have a right to
criticize when a product fails to meet expectations or advertisements.

 The
>same principle applies to chess engines, if you go and buy a chess engine which
>plays at a GM strength, it does not matter how much tinkering you do to the
>program, it will either continue to play strong or too stupid to play chess like
>the paint scenario.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is nonsense.  If it can play GM and it can play stupid then it can also
play somewhere in between.  It's a matter of taking the time to do a good job of
making it happen.  It's obviously not a high priority but that does not mean it
can't be done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you want a chess engine to play at amateur strength than
>perhaps the freeware/shareware version would offer such programs, or get some of
>the old chess engines such as Psion Chess, Sargon II, Sargon III, Chessmaster
>2000. Either that or start applying better studying techniques to improve your
>game.

That's easy for someone not in the business to say.  If you are in the business
of selling chess software then you can't afford that attitude unless you think
the very small number of Masters /GM's will support your product sales.  It
makes no business sense.


Also, can you ask a GM to play at a 1400 ELO? See the dilemma that chess
>programmers face, they don't know how a chess amateur thinks and how a chess
>amateur analyzes chess positions, so no matter what they do, they will never
>produce a chess engine which will play like a human amateur, and amateur chess
>analysis don't sell in chess publications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
All of the chess programs produced in the last 30 years play like an amateur!
Human amateur no but they were close enough and their ratings proved it.  The
major probem is not that they can't play like amateurs because they can.  The
problem is they are not calibrated very well.  If you set Fritz to 1400 and it
beats the hell out of a 1600 player then that's what the complaint is all about.
Jim Walker
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>










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