Author: Peter Fendrich
Date: 08:16:13 12/29/04
Go up one level in this thread
On December 28, 2004 at 21:08:36, chandler yergin wrote: >On December 27, 2004 at 17:17:17, Peter Fendrich wrote: > >>On December 27, 2004 at 14:28:16, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On December 27, 2004 at 13:52:30, Peter Fendrich wrote: >>> >>>>On December 27, 2004 at 13:20:06, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 27, 2004 at 13:18:46, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 27, 2004 at 12:44:24, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On December 27, 2004 at 12:18:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On December 27, 2004 at 12:15:31, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[D]5k2/8/P5B1/3P3p/3b4/8/1P6/1K6 w - - 0 56 bm d6 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Am I right to think that it is a draw after Bxh5? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Note that the position is from a game that was played in the arena tournament of >>>>>>>>frank quisinsky >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>see http://www.playwitharena.co.uk/modules.php?name=ATL_League >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Playing both sides with The King, the game ends in a draw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>jm >>>>>> >>>>>>Movei-Gandalf6 also ended in a draw after Bxh5 but the question is if there is >>>>>>some win for white that I fail to see. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>Note that d6 is a win for white and the question is also how much time does the >>>>>king need to see d6 and not Bxh5 >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Also Kc2 is winning. >>>>/Peter >>> >>>Is it based on computer or human analysis. >>>I did not use computer to analyze Kc2 and I do not see how Kc2 Ke7 wins for >>>white after a minute of thought. >>> >>>Uri >> >>No I just looked at the diagram you gave. I was at my job. >>Now after a little more thorough look I found it wrong but I >>kind of like the idea behind: >>1. wK to b5 >>2. P to b4 >>3. B to e4 whenever needed >>Suppose that the bK is on d6 >>Now I looked for sacrificing the a-pawn by a6-a7. >>After a7 Bxa7 Ka6 Be3 the idea was Kb7, blocking the the black K, >>followed by b5 and b6. >> >>The problem is that it doesn't seem to win... >>Furthermore if black place his king at c7 instead of d6 the sacrifice >>definitely isn't correct. >> >>I nice try, anyhow! >>/Peter > >Shredder finds the win... >New game, >5k2/8/P5B1/3P3p/3b4/8/1P6/1K6 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Shredder 8: > >1.Bxh5 > +- (4.07) Depth: 1/1 00:00:01 >1.Bxh5 > +- (4.07) Depth: 1/1 00:00:01 >1.Bxh5 Bf2 > +- (3.43) Depth: 2/3 00:00:01 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 > +- (2.52) Depth: 2/3 00:00:01 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 > +- (2.52) Depth: 2/3 00:00:02 >1.d6 Bxb2 > +- (2.54) Depth: 2/3 00:00:02 >1.d6 h4 > +- (2.69) Depth: 2/3 00:00:02 >1.d6 Bb6 2.Be4 > +- (2.44) Depth: 3/5 00:00:03 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Be8 > +- (3.02) Depth: 3/5 00:00:03 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Be8 > +- (3.02) Depth: 3/5 00:00:03 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Be8 > +- (3.02) Depth: 3/5 00:00:03 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.d6+ Kxd6 3.a7 > +- (2.69) Depth: 4/5 00:00:03 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 > +- (2.45) Depth: 4/5 00:00:03 >1.d6 h4 > +- (2.58) Depth: 4/5 00:00:03 >1.d6 h4 2.Bf5 Ke8 > +- (2.58) Depth: 4/7 00:00:03 >1.d6 h4 2.b4 Bb6 3.Bf5 > +- (2.65) Depth: 5/8 00:00:04 >1.Bxh5 Bxb2 > +- (2.66) Depth: 5/8 00:00:04 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 > +- (3.05) Depth: 5/8 00:00:04 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Kc2 > +- (3.05) Depth: 5/8 00:00:04 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Bd1 > +- (2.50) Depth: 6/7 00:00:04 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Bd1 Bxb2 > +- (2.50) Depth: 6/7 00:00:04 >1.d6 h4 2.b4 h3 3.Bf5 Bf2 > +- (2.53) Depth: 6/7 00:00:04 >1.d6 h4 2.b4 Bb6 3.Bf5 Ke8 > +- (2.60) Depth: 6/7 00:00:04 >1.d6 h4 2.b4 h3 3.b5 h2 4.Be4 h1R+ 5.Bxh1 > +- (2.49) Depth: 7/11 00:00:06 5kN, tb=3 >1.Bxh5 Bxb2 > +- (2.53) Depth: 7/11 00:00:06 6kN, tb=3 >1.Bxh5 Bc5 > +- (2.93) Depth: 7/11 00:00:06 7kN, tb=3 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Be2 Kd6 3.Bc4 Kc7 4.Kc2 > +- (2.93) Depth: 7/11 00:00:07 8kN, tb=6 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Bb6 > +- (2.88) Depth: 8/9 00:00:08 12kN, tb=16 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Bf3 Kd7 3.Kc2 Bb6 > +- (3.13) Depth: 9/11 00:00:13 20kN, tb=28 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Bf3 Kd7 3.Kc2 Bb6 4.Kb3 Kc7 5.Ka4 > +- (3.13) Depth: 9/11 00:00:13 21kN, tb=43 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Bf3 Kd6 3.b4 Bg1 4.Bh1 Kc7 5.Kc2 Bd4 > +- (3.04) Depth: 10/12 00:00:17 33kN, tb=134 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Kc2 Kd6 3.Be8 Kxd5 4.b4 > +- (2.87) Depth: 11/13 00:00:27 50kN, tb=199 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Kc2 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.b4 Bb6 > +- (3.12) Depth: 12/14 00:00:33 77kN, tb=310 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Kc2 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Be2 > +- (3.12) Depth: 12/14 00:00:35 81kN, tb=457 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Be2 Kd6 3.Bc4 Bb6 4.b4 Kc7 > +- (3.37) Depth: 13/16 00:00:48 170kN, tb=713 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.Be2 Kd6 3.Bc4 Bb6 4.b4 Kc7 5.b5 > +- (3.37) Depth: 13/16 00:00:48 173kN, tb=742 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Bb6 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Kc3 Ba7 7.Kc4 Bf2 8.Bh5 Ba7 >9.Bf3 Bf2 10.Bh5 Ba7 11.Bf3 Bf2 > +- (3.32) Depth: 14/17 00:00:57 285kN, tb=1706 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Kc7 6.Bc4 Bb6 7.Kb2 Bf2 8.Bb3 > +- (3.13) Depth: 15/18 00:01:03 368kN, tb=2138 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Kc7 6.Bc4 Bb6 7.Kd3 Ba7 8.Kc2 Bf2 >9.Bf1 Bd4 10.Bg2 Kb6 11.b5 > +- (3.15) Depth: 16/20 00:01:11 477kN, tb=3353 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Bb6 5.Kd3 Kd6 6.Be4 Ke7 > +- (3.38) Depth: 17/20 00:01:18 687kN, tb=4529 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Kc7 6.Kd3 Ba7 7.Ke4 Bf2 8.Ke5 Ba7 >9.Bc4 Bc5 > +- (3.33) Depth: 18/21 00:01:41 908kN, tb=8155 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.b5 Bb6 5.Kb2 Bf2 6.Kc2 Bg1 > +- (3.33) Depth: 19/24 00:01:57 1727kN, tb=12351 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Be5 6.Kd3 Bb8 7.Kd4 Bd6 8.b5 Bc7 >9.Kc3 Bd6 10.Kc4 Bg3 11.Bf3 Bf2 > +- (3.23) Depth: 20/24 00:02:07 2456kN, tb=18829 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Be5 6.Kd3 Bb8 7.Kd4 Bd6 8.b5 Ka7 > +- (3.48) Depth: 21/27 00:02:28 5237kN, tb=25350 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Be5 6.Kd3 Bb8 7.Kd4 Bd6 8.b5 Ka7 >9.Bg4 Kb6 10.Ke4 > +- (3.49) Depth: 21/27 00:02:32 5421kN, tb=28514 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Be5 6.Kd3 Bb8 7.Kd4 Bd6 8.b5 Ka7 >9.Kd3 Kb6 10.Kd4 Ka7 11.Kd3 Kb6 12.Kd4 Ka7 > +- (3.49) Depth: 22/24 00:02:47 7018kN, tb=36579 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Be5 6.Kd3 Bb8 7.Kd4 Bd6 8.b5 Ka7 >9.Kd3 Kb6 > +- (3.49) Depth: 23/27 00:03:20 9438kN, tb=48852 >1.Bxh5 Ke7 2.b4 Kd6 3.Bf3 Kc7 4.Kc2 Kb6 5.Be2 Be5 6.Kd3 Bb8 7.Kd4 Bd6 8.b5 Ka7 >9.Kd3 Kb6 > +- (3.49) Depth: 24/26 00:03:57 12951kN, tb=81427 >1.d6 Bf2 > +- (3.50) Depth: 24/50 00:08:37 42487kN, tb=174331 >1.d6 Bf2 2.Bxh5 Bg3 3.d7 Ke7 4.a7 Bb8 5.axb8Q Ke6 6.d8Q Kf5 7.Qh8 Ke6 8.Kc2 Kd7 >9.Qhd8+ Kc6 > +- (3.85) Depth: 24/50 00:08:54 45812kN, tb=181316 > >(, 28.12.2004) It is not obvious that Shredder really found the win even if it shows d6 after 8:54. The difference between Bxh5 (3.49) and d6 (3.85) isn't big enough to be reliable when we are talking about draw vs win. The score should be significanty highter in order to convince me... Shredder changed from d6 to Bxh5 earlier in the search and can do so again later on with such small difference between the moves. /Peter
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.