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Subject: Re: Junior 9 test (40'/40) 200 games

Author: stuart taylor

Date: 15:56:31 12/29/04

Go up one level in this thread


On December 29, 2004 at 07:33:51, Albert Silver wrote:

>On December 28, 2004 at 20:44:54, Derek Paquette wrote:
>
>>On December 28, 2004 at 20:29:03, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 28, 2004 at 17:46:15, Derek Paquette wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 28, 2004 at 17:26:23, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 28, 2004 at 17:07:54, Derek Paquette wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 28, 2004 at 15:26:16, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Matches at 40’/40 + 40’/40 +40’ time control
>>>>>>>Junior9-GUI, ponder=off, 3-/4-men EGTB
>>>>>>>own books, no book learning, no learning
>>>>>>>on 4 Athlons 1.3/64 MB hash for all engines
>>>>>>>First defeat of Junior9 vs Shredder8 in this test.
>>>>>>>http://www.utzingerk.com/jun9_test.htm
>>>>>>>Kurt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Kurt, Junior 9 is known as an aggressive engine, how do you find Shredder 8
>>>>>>handled this?  Did it attack aswell or defend defend defend and then finally win
>>>>>>in the endgame?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      In my opinion there are different reasons why Shredder8
>>>>>      won this match: the German program is very good at defence
>>>>>      - stronger than Junior9 - knows more about pawn structures
>>>>>      and plays the endgame better than Junior9 ... and some pawns
>>>>>      given away by Junior9 did not bring the expected result -:)
>>>>>      Maybe the difference between these two very strong engines
>>>>>      will become smaller at longer time controls.
>>>>>      Kurt
>>>>
>>>>Kurt, did you happen to notice which program was searching deeper?
>>>>
>>>>Junior was 'known' as being the deepest searcher, but shredder 8 changed all
>>>>that, which searches deeper.
>>>
>>>Junior was never known to be the deeper searcher.
>>>
>>>It was always known that depth in Junior has a different meaning.
>>>depth in shredder8 also has different meaning relative to depth in shredder7.04
>>>because (otherwise Shredder8 could be at least 100 elo stronger than
>>>Shredder7.04 based on the difference on their search depth).
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>I realize that Shredder 8 is pruning A LOT more than shredder 7.04, but knowing
>>that,  the question would be,
>>
>>who is pruning the most to get the furthest ahead?
>
>Getting the furthest ahead or deepest is pointless if you fail to see the better
>move. Hiarcs with its 'apparently' shallower depth has shown how meaningless ply
>depth is more than any top engine IMO.
>
>When playing with the Pro Deo settings, there are several ways to get it to go a
>lot deeper in an equal time, but it often plays much worse, not a little.
>
>                                           Albert

Is Hiarcs 9 the greatest engine for fewest plies (due to common sense and
knowledge)?
I always used to think very highly of Hiarcs 6 and 7, and they ruled supreme in
their time.
Maybe they would do so now, if only there were a few other advancements,
together with it's already existing talents.
S.Taylor



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