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Subject: Re: How many programs find 14. ...Nxe4

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 03:54:26 12/30/04

Go up one level in this thread


On December 30, 2004 at 04:23:59, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 29, 2004 at 23:58:56, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>On December 29, 2004 at 13:06:29, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>Let me spell this out for you.
>>>
>>>1. People in this forum (for whatever reason) care about the chess playing
>>>ability of computers.
>>
>>So do I! It's a great tool...
>>
>>>2. The ultimate arbiter of chess playing ability is winning games against other
>>>players, be they human or computers.
>>>
>>>3. Therefore, we hold programs that win long matches and tournaments to be the
>>>best, and if Program A beats Program B in a 200 game match, we conclude that A
>>>plays better chess than B.
>>
>>understanably so..
>>
>>>4. In a game of chess, one can only play one move.
>>>
>>>5. The computer will play the one move that has the highest score.
>>
>>When there are 3 PV's with the same eval... (in a non-forcing position)
>>which move will be played?
>
>The one that the computer choose in one mode.
>
>It is also not relevant here because the moves had not the same evaluation.
>>
>>Don't know do you?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>6. Thus, the other moves that the computer considers are completely irrelevant.
>>>
>>>The point is: considering a move means NOTHING.  Playing a move means
>>>EVERYTHING.
>>>
>>>anthony
>>
>>My comment concerns "Test Positions" which are often given here....
>>I see the Main PV scrolled... and after hours sometimes, the Computer
>>does not go to the "Best" move. When you have it 'locked' on the one
>>PV it Scrolls that Variation! You'll never know what the true eval is or what
>>the Best Move IS.
>
>I will know what it is going to play after hours and it is the only thing that
>people who use one mode care about.

The Computer plays under a Time Control!
I know of NO Tournament unless it's Correspondence Chess that allows "Hours" of
thinking time. Do You?

So, your comment is irrelevant!


>
>If the discussion about it does not interest you then you can decide not to
>participate in the discussion but please do not destroy the discussion again and
>again by discussing about what people do not want to discuss and generating
>annoying noise.

Speak for YOURSELF! ONLY! This is a Forum, and YOU are NOT the BOSS!
Get it?

If you're not interested in my input stop reading it, and making inane
& irrelevant comments.

>>
>>Example:
>>
>>Using Multiple Lines..
>>Analysis by Shredder 8:
>>
>>1. ± (1.02): 1...Qd6 2.Re1 Qb6 3.Qc2 Bd7 4.Rad1 exd5 5.exd5 Rfe8 6.Bf3 e4 7.Nxe4
>>Nxe4 8.Bxe4 Qxb2 9.Qxb2 Bc3
>>2. ± (1.11): 1...exd5 2.exd5 Ne8 3.f3 Nd6 4.Bf2 Bf5 5.Qa4 Qe8 6.Qb4 Qd7 7.Rfe1
>>Rfc8 8.Rad1 Bf8 9.Bc5 b6 10.Qh4
>>3. ± (1.26): 1...Ne8 2.Qb3 exd5 3.Nxd5 Nd6 4.f3 Be6 5.Rad1 f5 6.Qa3 Rf7
>>4. +- (1.41): 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 exd5 3.Nc5 f5 4.f3 b6 5.Nb3 Bb7 6.Rc1 Rc8 7.Qd3 e4
>>8.Qd2 Rxc1
>>5. +- (1.44): 1...Qc7 2.Rc1 Bd7 3.Qb3 Rfc8 4.Rfd1 Rab8 5.Qb4 a5 6.d6 axb4 7.dxc7
>>Rxc7 8.Bxe5 bxc3 9.Bxc7
>>
>>Now, if I have Scroll active; it will scroll the PV 1...Qd6
>>and not overwrite with the best move.  (check the Manual)
>>Playing is one thing... of course you have to rely on what it considers
>>the best move, that's programmed in.
>>
>>For Test Positions, or "ANY" position for that matter, 'understanding'
>>the position is what is important for the human.
>
>No

You don't think Human players are interested in "understanding" positions?
Finding the truth in a position?
DUMB attitude!

>You insist to discuss about things that the posters are not interested in
>discussing.

As I said,, You are NOT the Boss..so Stop your Crap!


>Please stop it.

NO! You stop your nonsense


>
>The discussion is about the question if engine can play some move.
>You can also discuss also about the question if the move is the best move(it is
>not clear if Nxe4 is best) but you do neither of these things and the fact that
>engines can show Nxe4 as one of the best options does not tell me nothing
>because it can still be best move or not best move).
>
>There are 2 interesting questions:
>1)What is the best move?
>2)What move computers play?
>
>The fact that computers consider Nxe4 as an option in 4 option mode tell me
>nothing about these questions so I do not find it interesting.

How sad... but then I don't find you interesting either.
For a 'player' it tells a lot; it should tell you something.

>
>>Multiple PV's in parallel, and simultaneously provide that insight.
>>
>>It is also very insightful when reviewing games..
>>you will discover the Computer does not always play the best move..
>
>Of course computer does not always the best move (otherwise people could solve
>chess)
>
>It is no news.
>
>Uri



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