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Subject: Re: Shredder 8 sees no Draw

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 10:49:10 01/03/05

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On January 03, 2005 at 09:56:27, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 03, 2005 at 07:26:07, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>On January 01, 2005 at 19:30:12, Ulysses Omycron wrote:
>>
>>>>The Significant part of the Eval is the first digit!
>>>>It shows Zero! (0.50) That means neither side has an advantage.
>>>>The numbers after the Decimal are in hundredths of a Pawn,and based on
>>>>Static Positional features in a Quiescent Position. These are Programed
>>>>weights given for King Safty, Mobility, Pawn structure, strong/weak squares
>>>>etc. etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You are slightly right, but not at all.
>>
>>Closer than you are my friend (Read the Manual!)
>>
>>>
>>>Draw score is 0.00 (Unless you tweak it), that means the Engine knows it's going
>>>to draw (Though most of the time the 0.00 goes away after a while). A score
>>>higher or lower than 0.00 means someone has an advantage... Even an advantage >of 0.10 (1/10 of a pawn) doesn't mean draw.
>>
>>At that point in time it does!
>>As I pointed out; the 0.xx is based on Static positional programed weights!
>>The slight = or - simpy means either White or Black has better King safty,
>>mobilty better pawn structure etc. etc.
>>
>>The Significant point is the 1st digit!
>>Until that shows a + 1.xx or - 1.xx or better;
>>neither side has an advantage.
>> Consider it a Draw!
>>
>>Even a Win is not certain until a + 3.00  or a -3.00 or better is reached.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I think the main poster wanted to know if any engine give the CORRECT score of
>>>0.00 and not something lower (Black has advantage) or higher (White has
>>>advantage).
>>
>>He probably did.. he simply doesn't understand.
>>
>>You CANNOT say CORRECT SCORE! The engine evaluates based on how it is
>>programmed. There is also a 'contempt' factor which can be programmed in.
>>
>>With pieces on the Board; one of them usually has  slightly better, though
>> not decisive, static positional features, as determined by the Programmer.
>>Different engines will evaluate a position differently based on these factors.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>If 0.50 meant neither side has advantage, then an engine could pick any move at
>>>random as long as it doesn't goes below/avobe the 0.50 margin to give the enemy
>>>advantage.
>>
>>There maybe several moves that the engine evaluates the same; and will select
>>the 1st one examined then.
>>
>>They wouln't since they'd lose, just try it in CB's friendly mode in
>>>where choosing 0.50 has this effect, 1.00 is just slightly better than 0.99,
>>>0.99 doesn't mean "neither side has an advantage"
>>
>>Yes it DOES! When you get to + 1.0  or - 1.0,
>>then and only than does one have a pawn advantage!
>>
>>Read the Manual.
>
>The manual is not relevant here.

The HELL it's NOT!
Guess ya can't teach an old dog new tricks.

>
>Every programmer will tell you that when a program say +0.50 for white it means
>that white has the advantage(it does not say if it is enough to win but it says
>advantage).

Well, they are WRONG!
If you can't understand what the .XX IS, you shouldn't be Programming!

>
>Maybe it is better if people do not answer you because you always argue about
>things that the posters do not mean.

If they can't articulate clearly and precisely,
 than they don't understand what they are trying to say!


>When posters say seeing a draw they mean seeing 0.00 score.

Well they are wrong!
They see.. but they don't understand!

That's because they don't understand what the Eval really means.

>When posters say finding a move they mean finding in one best mode.

I know what they mean...

>
>You should stop give original explanation to things and talk in the terminology
>that almost everybody is using.
>
>Uri

I can't help if they are all wrong!
;)
CY
A Rose by any other name still smells.!



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