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Subject: Re: Shredder 8 sees no Draw

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 14:47:31 01/03/05

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On January 03, 2005 at 13:50:52, Ulysses Omycron wrote:

>On January 03, 2005 at 07:36:58, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>>If 0.50 meant neither side has advantage, then an engine could pick any move at
>>>random as long as it doesn't goes below/avobe the 0.50 margin to give the enemy
>>>advantage. They wouln't since they'd lose, just try it in CB's friendly mode in
>>>where choosing 0.50 has this effect, 1.00 is just slightly better than 0.99,
>>
>>Slightly better, means that with a 1.0 one player IS NOW a full pawn ahead.
>
>Uri already explained why I should not bother to reply, but I have a spirit
>similar at yours, that wants to prove himself right.
>
>To reply at the last sentence, there programs that can be tweaked so a pawn is
>not worth 100. It can be 90 as an example (This value is used by Prodeo's
>GrandMaster's personalities and it seems very good).

Why Tweak it?
Play against it at full strength!
As such.. a Pawn is 1.0
A Piece is 3.0

What I wrote, under those circumstances is CORRECT!

>
>So a 0.90 means one player IS NOW one pawn ahead.
>
>Also, programs tend to evaluate a pawn differently depending if it's position,
>if it's backwards, passed, connected, etc. So you cannot define a full pawn, and
>so you cannot say 1.00 is a full pawn.

Yes you can.. I just did!
>
>>No game is won or lost by "hundredths" of a pawn.
>
>You may change the programs' behavior so it forfeits once it gets a -0.99 score,
>so your statement is theorically wrong.

Yes, you can change your wife's behavior too; but I wouldn't recommend it!

>
>In real life, grandmasters have forfeited in won positions, so it doesn't matter
>who is winning and by how much, we are just talking that a draw means no
>advantage for either side.

Of course a Draw means NO advantage for either side.
What have I talked about?


>
>>No game is Won by a "Partial" piece either.
>>A Bishop, or Knight is evaluated at 3.0 Pawns; Rook at 5 pawns
>>until the eval is 3.0 or better, no player is a full piece ahead.
>
>Let's suppose you're right.

I am


>
>So when is a game won? When the program forfeits on a lost position like -7.50
>and the interface adjudicates a win for the winning side? No?

How does a Program forfeit?
Human intervention?


>
>Then it is won by checkmate?

Of COURSE!

 Let's suppose the king is worth 100.00

The King is of infinite worth!


so when you
>checkmated it, your score is 100.0

Your score is # Mate!

 since all the other pieces you captured don't
>matter, you've won.


Exactly.. You've Won
El Roi es Mort!


>
>Then 100.0 is the only score that matters because no game is won by a full piece
>either,

NONSENSE! Your analogy Sucks!

so a score of -19.00 (A queen and two rooks) is not a game won, and thus
>it's a draw since noside has an advantage.


>
>(I'm just multiplying your statement by 100 and it seems to not make sense, you
>have to say when is the game won and when a side has an advantage, on pawn ahead
>is as good as 0.99 score ahead).


0.99 Is NOT a pawn ahead! 1.0 IS an eval of a Pawn ahead!

>
>I'm doing just what you're doing

No, you're Not, I'm stating FACTS; you, are wildly speculating, &
Spouting nonsense!

>so you can see how you look posting stuff like
>that on a forum.
>
>Take care, and don't write to strangers on a forum ;o

I don't take kindly to fools and Knaves, so will ignore you in future!
CY



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