Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:30:16 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 10:54:26, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 02:33:38, Jouni Uski wrote: > >>In my (private) endgame testsuite Fruit scored better than some programs >>with tablebase support (e.g. Junior8 and Crafty). Quite stunning - it seems, >>that excellent search depth compensates TBs! And my suite has some 5/6 piece >>positions were TB access is definitely advantage. >> >>Jouni > >IMO the 5-piece tablebases are just not that interesting and really not worth >that much in terms of elo. A little endgame knowledge can cover most of the >positions and be a lot faster too. The tables still help, but its not a killer >advantage, say 10-20 elo. Every 10 games or so the side with the tables picks >up a half point. > >However, the 6-man tables are a COMPLETELY different story. Think about all the >interesting 6-man tables: > >KXPPKX >KXKPPP >K[BN]PPKR >KRBPKQ > >and the list goes on. I suspect a full 6-man set is worth 100 elo at least. I do not believe in it. I do not believe that even full 7-Woman set(piece-set but I simply respond by woman because as a feminist I object to "man set") is not worth 100 elo. >This is why I keep pestering Skinner to let me download some of them :) > >And when the 7-man tables are finished? (2010 or so :)) Computers will become >invincible in the ending, as they win all "simple" endings like KQPPKQP with >ease. There are still a lot of endgames like KRPPP vs KRPPP that are not covered by the tablebases. The practical facts are: 1)A lot of games are decided in the middle game and not in the endgame. 2)A lot of endgames are not so simple that 7 piece tablebases can help in them. 3)A lot of endgames when 7 pieces or less is relevant are simple enough that programs can find the correct moves without tablebases. If we assume 50% of the games are decided in the middle game and in 50% of the rest of the games the endgame is not simple we are left only with 25% of the games and if in 50% of them using tablebases does not change the result because programs are good enough to find the right move without them then we have only 12.5 of the games when the result is changed and changing the result of 12.5% of the game (in most cases by half point) is not enough for 100 elo. You will get something like 57/100 instead of 50/100 that is nice improvement but only something like 50 elo. The effect may be bigger in blitz when programs more often cannot find the correct move without tablebases but when the 7 piece tablebases will be ready computers are going to be significantly faster. Uri
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.