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Subject: Re: Fruit 2 and endgame play

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 15:46:12 01/12/05

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On January 12, 2005 at 18:21:14, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 12, 2005 at 18:00:30, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>On January 12, 2005 at 17:43:45, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On January 12, 2005 at 17:26:40, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 13:31:16, chandler yergin wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>This is why I keep pestering Skinner to let me download some of them :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And when the 7-man tables are finished? (2010 or so :))
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not in your lifetime!
>>>>
>>>>All the essential files will be done before long.
>>>>KQQQQQk is not very interesing, for instance.
>>>>
>>>>>> Computers will become
>>>>>>invincible in the ending, as they win all "simple" endings like KQPPKQP with
>>>>>>ease.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>anthony
>>>>>
>>>>>   Not until you get the BUGS out of the Programs.
>>>>>Humans still Rule; NOT Silicon Chips!
>>>>
>>>>Humans also have flaws in their analysis.  Eventually, computers will win every
>>>>game, because humans advance slowly and compute power advances exponentially.
>>>>
>>>>It is simply inevitable
>>>
>>>It is not so clear.
>>>
>>>If the game is complicated enough computers will eventually win every game but
>>>if the game is simple enough humans may play perfect at least in part of the
>>>games and get draws.
>>>
>>>It is not clear that chess is complicated enough so humans cannot avoid drawing
>>>against computers.
>>
>>YES! They can Draw!
>>
>>>
>>>A deterministic machine will be unable to win every game because human who want
>>>to draw it will need only to learn the moves of game of that machine against
>>>itself and use them.
>>
>>What do you call a 'deterministic' machine?
>
>deterministic machine is machine that always play the same move from the same
>position.
>
>>Computers "Store & Retrieve Information. They have NO intelligence!
>>I'm glad you realize that!
>
>Computers need no intelligence to be not deterministic.
>
>Changing the weight of the evaluations by some small random number can cause
>them to choose different move.
>
>>
>>Look at the EPD Test Positions.. How many  Programs Fail to Solve them?
>>Hmmmm?
>
>Computers get bettter and better and I do not claim that it is impossible that
>in the future they will solve every chess problem.

I DO!

>
>probably you will not live to see it but it is possible that younger people than
>you may see it.

Nonsense!
>
>>How many make D-U-M-B mistakes...?
>>Hmmmm?
>>Computers will NEVER Solve Chess!
>>Period!
>
>Not in the near future but I cannot be sure of never.

I can!

>
>I cannot be sure that it is impossible that humans will invent some algorithm to
>detect illogical moves and by pruning them will solve chess.

You fail to grasp the Obvious!

>
>It is also possible that if computers search deep enough they will practically
>solve chess and inspite of no proof that they solve chess nobody will be able to
>beat them even with take back.

Nonsense!
Your enamoration for a man-made machine is tooo much!
I don't buy it!
There is not a Database large enough or a Program 'smart enough, or the time
long enough to 'solve' what is for all practical purposes  'infinite'
possibilities. Your Hard Drive can be spinning until the Universe is a Cold Dark
Place.. and NOT SOLVE CHESS!
Period!

If you don't like to consider Cold.. then until "HELL FREEZES OVER"


 You spout Nonsense!


>
>It is possible that some smart evaluation+ some smart search are enough to play
>always the best move(except maybe not finding the fastest mate that is not
>important for the result) without proving that the program always play the best
>move.
>
>Uri
>
>
>>No "Proof" can be submitted until every possible combination has been "Brute
>>Forced".
>>That.. is an impossibility!
>>
>>Your ELO Ratings for Computers is "Greatly" Overinflated...
>>CY
>>
>>>
>>>The only chance of machines to win every game is in case that they have
>>>something not deterministic in their choice.
>>>
>>>I doubt if it is possible to do in chess.
>>
>>Thank YOU!
>>Programs are a TOOL!
>>Some of you Programmers don't even understand how to use them!
>>>
>>>Uri



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