Author: Uri Blass
Date: 17:17:08 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 19:57:49, chandler yergin wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 19:09:40, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 12, 2005 at 18:57:24, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>On January 12, 2005 at 18:46:12, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On January 12, 2005 at 18:21:14, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 18:00:30, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 17:43:45, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 17:26:40, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 13:31:16, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>>>[snip] >>>>>>>>>>This is why I keep pestering Skinner to let me download some of them :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>And when the 7-man tables are finished? (2010 or so :)) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Not in your lifetime! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>All the essential files will be done before long. >>>>>>>>KQQQQQk is not very interesing, for instance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Computers will become >>>>>>>>>>invincible in the ending, as they win all "simple" endings like KQPPKQP with >>>>>>>>>>ease. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>anthony >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not until you get the BUGS out of the Programs. >>>>>>>>>Humans still Rule; NOT Silicon Chips! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Humans also have flaws in their analysis. Eventually, computers will win every >>>>>>>>game, because humans advance slowly and compute power advances exponentially. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It is simply inevitable >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It is not so clear. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If the game is complicated enough computers will eventually win every game but >>>>>>>if the game is simple enough humans may play perfect at least in part of the >>>>>>>games and get draws. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It is not clear that chess is complicated enough so humans cannot avoid drawing >>>>>>>against computers. >>>>>> >>>>>>YES! They can Draw! >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>A deterministic machine will be unable to win every game because human who want >>>>>>>to draw it will need only to learn the moves of game of that machine against >>>>>>>itself and use them. >>>>>> >>>>>>What do you call a 'deterministic' machine? >>>>> >>>>>deterministic machine is machine that always play the same move from the same >>>>>position. >>>>> >>>>>>Computers "Store & Retrieve Information. They have NO intelligence! >>>>>>I'm glad you realize that! >>>>> >>>>>Computers need no intelligence to be not deterministic. >>>>> >>>>>Changing the weight of the evaluations by some small random number can cause >>>>>them to choose different move. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Look at the EPD Test Positions.. How many Programs Fail to Solve them? >>>>>>Hmmmm? >>>>> >>>>>Computers get bettter and better and I do not claim that it is impossible that >>>>>in the future they will solve every chess problem. >>>> >>>>I DO! >>>> >>>>> >>>>>probably you will not live to see it but it is possible that younger people than >>>>>you may see it. >>>> >>>>Nonsense! >>>>> >>>>>>How many make D-U-M-B mistakes...? >>>>>>Hmmmm? >>>>>>Computers will NEVER Solve Chess! >>>>>>Period! >>>>> >>>>>Not in the near future but I cannot be sure of never. >>>> >>>>I can! >>>> >>>>> >>>>>I cannot be sure that it is impossible that humans will invent some algorithm to >>>>>detect illogical moves and by pruning them will solve chess. >>>> >>>>You fail to grasp the Obvious! >>>> >>>>> >>>>>It is also possible that if computers search deep enough they will practically >>>>>solve chess and inspite of no proof that they solve chess nobody will be able to >>>>>beat them even with take back. >>>> >>>>Nonsense! >>>>Your enamoration for a man-made machine is tooo much! >>>>I don't buy it! >>>>There is not a Database large enough or a Program 'smart enough, or the time >>>>long enough to 'solve' what is for all practical purposes 'infinite' >>>>possibilities. Your Hard Drive can be spinning until the Universe is a Cold Dark >>>>Place.. and NOT SOLVE CHESS! >>>>Period! >>>> >>>>If you don't like to consider Cold.. then until "HELL FREEZES OVER" >>>> >>>> >>>> You spout Nonsense! >>> >>>SQRT(10^43) nodes is a lot less than infinite, and that is how many nodes are >>>needed to solve chess. Or [more simply] to make the perfect move given any >>>position. Chess will be solved in the lifetime of the readers of this forum. >>>It is simply unquestionable to those with understanding of simple mathematics. >> >>I have no proof that sqrt(10^43) is enough. >> >>It may be enough but may be not enough and it is probably not enough with the >>techniques that are used today. >> >>10^43 may be the number of possible positions in chess but it does not mean that >>sqrt(10^43) is enough for the same reason that I do not know of a way to solve >>KRB vs KR position with only sqrt(64^5) nodes inspite of the fact that there are >>less than 64^5 KRB vs KR positions. >> >>64^5=2^30 >>sqrt(64^5)=2^15 >> >>I know of no program that can solve KRB vs KR positions with no tablebases in >>2^15 nodes even if solving only mean finding the right move. >> >>The question if chess will be solved in the next 50 years is an open question. >>We also do not know what will be the speed of computers 50 years from today. >> >>Uri > >Today.. thay can't even solve a Mate in 35 that a young Lady saw... The question is also if she saw the mate or sayed for some positions that this is a mate in less than 10 without calculating. Can you show us a tree of all the lines that lead to mate? >Or.. another position where she annouced Mate in 21... after searching BILLIONS >of Positions. >Chess Will NOT be solved by Computers. >Programmers STFU! >You are jusr embarrassing yourselves. >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do not expect it to happen in the near future but it does not mean that it will never happen. Uri
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