Author: chandler yergin
Date: 17:31:43 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 20:12:40, Uri Blass wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 20:09:36, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On January 12, 2005 at 20:04:11, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:45:49, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:41:44, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:27:05, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:11:12, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:04:31, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>So says Mark Twain.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>You Programmers are spreading lies, misinformation, & disinformation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>However I should not attribute to Malice, what can be explained by Ignorance! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Computers will NEVER SOLVE CHESS! >>>>>>>>Stop your Nonsense! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings. >>>>>>>Man will never fly faster than sound. >>>>>>>Man will never go to the moon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Things that seem impossible quickly become possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In this particular case, it is even obvious mathematically how it will come >>>>>>>about. >>>>>> >>>>>>If you understood Mathmatics, you wouldn't say that! >>>>>> >>>>>>It IS Obvious, that it's an Impossibility! >>>>>> >>>>>>The Question of "whether or not God exists" is a Philosophical & Meataphysical >>>>>>Question. >>>>>>Would you agree? >>>>>> >>>>>>Some say.. "It can't be Proven". >>>>>>With a Philosophical Question, there are NO 'right or wrong' answers... >>>>>> >>>>>>With Mathmatics, there ARE 'right & wrong' answers. >>>>> >>>>>Mathematics will not tell you if it is practically possible to solve chess. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Your perception is in error! >>>>>> >>>>>>THINK! >>>>>> >>>>>>"In a tree, from the Starting Position, there are 20 possible moves for white. >>>>>>There are 20 * 20 = 400 possible moves for black, depending on what white does. >>>>> >>>>>Yes but you do not need to analyze everyone of them and no program does it. >>>>> >>>>>>Then there are 400 * 20 = 8,000 for white. >>>>> >>>>>The number of possible games of 3 plies is more than 8000. >>>>>The number of possible positions that you get after 3 plies is smaller because >>>>>1.e4 e6 2.d4 is identical to 1.d4 e6 2.e4 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then there are 8,000 * 20 = 160,000 >>>>>>for black, and so on. If you were to fully develop the entire tree for all >>>>>>possible chess moves, the total number of board positions is about >>>>>>1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>000,000,000,000, or 10^120, give or take a few. >>>>> >>>>>No >>>>> >>>>>The number of possible games is higher than 10^120 >>>> >>>> >>>>Give or take a few... >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>The number of total positions is clearly smaller. >>>> >>>>I just proved it isn't! >>> >>>No you did not. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Maybe 10^40 and it is easy to prove it. >>>> >>>>PROVE IT! Stop your absurd assertions! >>> >>>Ok here is a proof it is less than 10^55 >>> >>>For every position you do the following steps: >>> >>>1)defining place for the kings: >>>less than 64^2=2^12 possibilities >>>2)defining the empty squares of the rest of the pieces 2^62 possibilities >>> >>>3)defining the type of the pieces in the non empty squares. >>> >>>Every non empty square has 10 possibilities(5 for white and 5 for black): >>>1)White queen >>>2)White Rook >>>3)White bishop >>>4)White knight >>>5)White pawn >>> >>>The total number of cases is 10 for every one of the 30 squares(or less non >>>empty squares so you have at most 10^30 possibilities. >>> >>>4)defining the side to move 2 possibilities >>> >>>5)define the ep flag 8 possibilities >>> >>>6)defining castling rights(16 possibilities in the worst case) >>> >>>2^74*10^30*2*8*16<10^55 >>> >>>Most of the positions are illegal because position when the side to move is in >>>check is illegal or position when white has 9 pawns is illegal. >>> >>>If you limit yourself only to legal positions than 10^40 seems to be a good >>>estimate. >>> >>>Uri >> >>Well it's NOT! >>Key word again... "Seems". You use that a LOT Uri. >>Possible moves... 10 ^120th Power! IN an "average game of 40 moves... >>NOW REFUTE IT! >>Can't huh? > >possible moves is not possible positions. > >possible moves in game of 40 moves of KRB vs KR is also in the same order but >programs can see mate in more than 50 in that endgame because the tablebases are >based on analysis of positions and not on analysis of moves and first the >program find all the mate position and later it finds all the position when the >distance to mate in 1 and continue in that way. > "Possible Moves" ARE POSITIONS! Legal Positions... They are for practical purposes INFINITE! >Uri
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