Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 17:54:45 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 20:51:59, chandler yergin wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 20:49:35, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On January 12, 2005 at 20:29:32, chandler yergin wrote: >> >>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:21:29, Dann Corbit wrote: >>> >>>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:02:33, chandler yergin wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:54:14, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:27:05, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:11:12, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:04:31, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>So says Mark Twain.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You Programmers are spreading lies, misinformation, & disinformation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>However I should not attribute to Malice, what can be explained by Ignorance! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Computers will NEVER SOLVE CHESS! >>>>>>>>>Stop your Nonsense! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings. >>>>>>>>Man will never fly faster than sound. >>>>>>>>Man will never go to the moon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Things that seem impossible quickly become possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In this particular case, it is even obvious mathematically how it will come >>>>>>>>about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you understood Mathmatics, you wouldn't say that! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It IS Obvious, that it's an Impossibility! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The Question of "whether or not God exists" is a Philosophical & Meataphysical >>>>>>>Question. >>>>>>>Would you agree? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Some say.. "It can't be Proven". >>>>>>>With a Philosophical Question, there are NO 'right or wrong' answers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>With Mathmatics, there ARE 'right & wrong' answers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Your perception is in error! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>THINK! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"In a tree, from the Starting Position, there are 20 possible moves for white. >>>>>>>There are 20 * 20 = 400 possible moves for black, depending on what white does. >>>>>>>Then there are 400 * 20 = 8,000 for white. Then there are 8,000 * 20 = 160,000 >>>>>>>for black, and so on. If you were to fully develop the entire tree for all >>>>>>>possible chess moves, the total number of board positions is about >>>>>>>1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>000,000,000,000, or 10^120, give or take a few. That's a very big number. For >>>>>>>example, there have only been 10^26 nanoseconds since the Big Bang. There are >>>>>>>thought to be only 10^75 atoms in the entire universe. When you consider that >>>>>>>the Milky Way galaxy contains billions of suns, and there are billions of >>>>>>>galaxies, you can see that that's a whole lot of atoms. That number is dwarfed >>>>>>>by the number of possible chess moves. Chess is a pretty intricate game!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>NOW, Do you want to "Disprove" this... >>>>>>>OR, >>>>>>>Re-think your position? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>HMMMMM? >>>>>>>Stop the Nonsense! >>>>>> >>>>>>You do not have to calculate all the games. You only have to calculate all the >>>>>>positions. There are about 10^43 of them: >>>>>>http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Chess.html >>>>>> >>>>>>KD has encoded chess positions into 162 bits, which gives an absolute upper >>>>>>maximum on the number of board positions as: >>>>>>2^162 = 5846006549323611672814739330865132078623730171904 possible positions. >>>>>>(about 5.846e48) >>>>>> >>>>>>So, if we take that figure, then we would need a tree of sqrt(5.846e48) = >>>>>>2417851639229258349412352 positions (which is less than one mole of them) to >>>>>>store a complete solution tree. >>>>>> >>>>>>This was proven by Knuth in 1972. >>>>>> >>>>>>There are some other things that the programmer would have to track (hmc and >>>>>>3-way repeat, for instance) but that is trivial. >>>>>> >>>>>>My brother in law's father has a patent on a storage medium that will hold a >>>>>>terrabyte per square centimeter. So the storage for such a collection is >>>>>>already nearly possible. That would require 2417851639229 square centimeters, >>>>>>which is 241785163 square meters = 241 square kilometers. >>>>>>Since there are 230.4 acres per square kilometer, that means we would need a >>>>>>mere 55,430 acres of the stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>>If someone were to invest a few billion dollars, we could do it today. But we >>>>>>may as well wait 40 years, in which time it will cost a few pennies to do it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>NONSENSE! >>>>>You can put all 6 Billion people of the world in the State of Texas too... >>>>> and have room left over. So what? >>>>> >>>>>Mathmatically.. Chess, as I showed has 10^ 120th Power possible number of >>>>>moves... in an "Average Game!" >>>>>Increase that by a move or two, and the number of possible moves IS almost >>>>>"infinite" >>>> >>>>You do not have to solve the moves. You only need to know the best move from >>>>each position. >>> >>>YES! How do you know what the "Best MOVE" IS, untill you Brute Force them ALL! >>>?????????????? >> >>Eugene Nalimov's tablebase files contain perfect knowlege. Where did it come >>from? >> >>It may be possble to find the best move based upon first principles without >>brute force. In any case, it will soon be possible to solve chess. > >Ludicrous! ASS-Umption, NO evidence to even suggest this! >If you can't grasp the obvious.. which you don't, TOOOOOO Bad! How do you think computers play RIGHT NOW? Obviously, you do not know it, because they do not brute force anything all the way to the end. Rather, they play according to principles that have been programmed into the evaluation function. And they already play as well as the best humans on earth. > Within ten >>years I think it will be practically solved (such that a human no longer has any >>chances against the best machine). > > >Crap! > >> >>>Now Stop your NONSENSE! >>>> >>>>>You, are convincing no one.. well maybe some, but certainly NOT ME! >>>> >>>>I do not expect to convince you. You aren't listening.
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