Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 17:55:54 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 20:31:43, chandler yergin wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 20:12:40, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 12, 2005 at 20:09:36, chandler yergin wrote: >> >>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:04:11, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:45:49, chandler yergin wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:41:44, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:27:05, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:11:12, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:04:31, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>So says Mark Twain.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You Programmers are spreading lies, misinformation, & disinformation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>However I should not attribute to Malice, what can be explained by Ignorance! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Computers will NEVER SOLVE CHESS! >>>>>>>>>Stop your Nonsense! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings. >>>>>>>>Man will never fly faster than sound. >>>>>>>>Man will never go to the moon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Things that seem impossible quickly become possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In this particular case, it is even obvious mathematically how it will come >>>>>>>>about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you understood Mathmatics, you wouldn't say that! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It IS Obvious, that it's an Impossibility! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The Question of "whether or not God exists" is a Philosophical & Meataphysical >>>>>>>Question. >>>>>>>Would you agree? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Some say.. "It can't be Proven". >>>>>>>With a Philosophical Question, there are NO 'right or wrong' answers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>With Mathmatics, there ARE 'right & wrong' answers. >>>>>> >>>>>>Mathematics will not tell you if it is practically possible to solve chess. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Your perception is in error! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>THINK! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"In a tree, from the Starting Position, there are 20 possible moves for white. >>>>>>>There are 20 * 20 = 400 possible moves for black, depending on what white does. >>>>>> >>>>>>Yes but you do not need to analyze everyone of them and no program does it. >>>>>> >>>>>>>Then there are 400 * 20 = 8,000 for white. >>>>>> >>>>>>The number of possible games of 3 plies is more than 8000. >>>>>>The number of possible positions that you get after 3 plies is smaller because >>>>>>1.e4 e6 2.d4 is identical to 1.d4 e6 2.e4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Then there are 8,000 * 20 = 160,000 >>>>>>>for black, and so on. If you were to fully develop the entire tree for all >>>>>>>possible chess moves, the total number of board positions is about >>>>>>>1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>000,000,000,000, or 10^120, give or take a few. >>>>>> >>>>>>No >>>>>> >>>>>>The number of possible games is higher than 10^120 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Give or take a few... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>The number of total positions is clearly smaller. >>>>> >>>>>I just proved it isn't! >>>> >>>>No you did not. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Maybe 10^40 and it is easy to prove it. >>>>> >>>>>PROVE IT! Stop your absurd assertions! >>>> >>>>Ok here is a proof it is less than 10^55 >>>> >>>>For every position you do the following steps: >>>> >>>>1)defining place for the kings: >>>>less than 64^2=2^12 possibilities >>>>2)defining the empty squares of the rest of the pieces 2^62 possibilities >>>> >>>>3)defining the type of the pieces in the non empty squares. >>>> >>>>Every non empty square has 10 possibilities(5 for white and 5 for black): >>>>1)White queen >>>>2)White Rook >>>>3)White bishop >>>>4)White knight >>>>5)White pawn >>>> >>>>The total number of cases is 10 for every one of the 30 squares(or less non >>>>empty squares so you have at most 10^30 possibilities. >>>> >>>>4)defining the side to move 2 possibilities >>>> >>>>5)define the ep flag 8 possibilities >>>> >>>>6)defining castling rights(16 possibilities in the worst case) >>>> >>>>2^74*10^30*2*8*16<10^55 >>>> >>>>Most of the positions are illegal because position when the side to move is in >>>>check is illegal or position when white has 9 pawns is illegal. >>>> >>>>If you limit yourself only to legal positions than 10^40 seems to be a good >>>>estimate. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Well it's NOT! >>>Key word again... "Seems". You use that a LOT Uri. >>>Possible moves... 10 ^120th Power! IN an "average game of 40 moves... >>>NOW REFUTE IT! >>>Can't huh? >> >>possible moves is not possible positions. >> >>possible moves in game of 40 moves of KRB vs KR is also in the same order but >>programs can see mate in more than 50 in that endgame because the tablebases are >>based on analysis of positions and not on analysis of moves and first the >>program find all the mate position and later it finds all the position when the >>distance to mate in 1 and continue in that way. >> > > >"Possible Moves" ARE POSITIONS! You are wrong. >Legal Positions... The number of legal positions is not remotely connected to the number of possible games. >They are for practical purposes INFINITE! That is a silly thing to say.
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