Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 17:57:24 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 20:55:04, chandler yergin wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 20:45:47, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On January 12, 2005 at 20:32:35, chandler yergin wrote: >> >>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:30:56, Dann Corbit wrote: >>> >>>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:26:56, chandler yergin wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:19:48, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:04:27, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:56:25, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:37:29, Steve Maughan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Dann, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Things that seem impossible quickly become possible. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I recon about 300 years before a computer will solve chess. This assumes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>1) 10^120 possible positions >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This is far, far too large. Chess positions have been encoded in 162 bits, >>>>>>>>which puts an absolute upper limit at 10^58 (and it is probably much less than >>>>>>>>that). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>2) Alpha-beta cutting this down to 10^60 sensible positions >>>>> >>>>>The Question does NOT concern "sensible" positions.. It concerns ALL Possible >>>>>positions! >>>>>What don't you understand? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The incorrect first assumption renders this and all following assumtions as >>>>>>>>moot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It's NOT an "assumption!" >>>>>>>THAT, is YOUR error! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>YOUR Ass-umptions that follow are ludicrouos! >>>>>> >>>>>>Not only is it demonstrably and obviously incorrect, the proper result is well >>>>>>known and has been known for decades. >>>>> >>>>>CRAP! Stop your biased Opinion and REFUTE my Statement! >>>> >>>>I have already done it. You simply don't understand it. >>>> >>>>> Furthermore, no advanced mathematics are >>>>>>needed to grasp it. A simple junior high level understanding should be >>>>>>sufficient. >>>>> >>>>>Yeah.. well PROVE IT! >>>> >>>>Already done >>>>Q.E.D. >>> >>> >>>You'd like to think so... >>>NOT SO! >> >>I will explain it so that you will very easily understand. Consider the game of >>tic-tac-toe. >> >>There are 255,168 TTT games, and yet (modulo symmetries) there are only 765 >>possible achievable positions. >> >>If (for each of those positions) I know what move I should make (any best move >>will do) then I have solved the game. With a table of the 765 answers, whatever >>move you make, I will make my answer move. >> >>See: >>http://www.btinternet.com/~se16/hgb/tictactoe.htm >> >>Hence, the number of possible chess games is totally irrelevant. The only thing >>that matters is the number of possible chess positions. Once I have computed my >>oracle, I will know what to do no matter what the board looks like. >> >>It does not matter how many ways there are to achieve a position. I only have >>to know what to do once I get there. >> >>[Event "Edited game"] >>[Site "DCORBIT64"] >>[Date "2005.01.12"] >>[Round "-"] >>[White "-"] >>[Black "-"] >>[Result "*"] >> >>1. Nc3 Nc6 2. Nb1 Nb8 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Nb1 Nb8 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Nb1 Nb8 7. Nc3 >>Nc6 8. e3 e6 >>* >> >>[Event "Edited game"] >>[Site "DCORBIT64"] >>[Date "2005.01.12"] >>[Round "-"] >>[White "-"] >>[Black "-"] >>[Result "*"] >> >>1. Nc3 Nc6 2. e3 e6 >>* > >You Dare comparing CHESS to Tic tac Toe? Or a LINE? I thought if I tried a simpler model you would understand it. Obviously, I gave you WAY too much credit. >To Prove an Idiotic assumption? >The Last resort of a Knave... >Give it UP! >you are Lost in Fantasy... and wishful thinking! The games are the same. Both are finite, zero sum games. Chess is just a bit deeper. About the same step apart as chess to go. But Go will also be solved.
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