Author: chandler yergin
Date: 18:39:20 01/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 12, 2005 at 20:55:54, Dann Corbit wrote: >On January 12, 2005 at 20:31:43, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On January 12, 2005 at 20:12:40, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:09:36, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On January 12, 2005 at 20:04:11, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:45:49, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:41:44, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:27:05, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:11:12, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:04:31, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>So says Mark Twain.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>You Programmers are spreading lies, misinformation, & disinformation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>However I should not attribute to Malice, what can be explained by Ignorance! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Computers will NEVER SOLVE CHESS! >>>>>>>>>>Stop your Nonsense! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings. >>>>>>>>>Man will never fly faster than sound. >>>>>>>>>Man will never go to the moon. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Things that seem impossible quickly become possible. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In this particular case, it is even obvious mathematically how it will come >>>>>>>>>about. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If you understood Mathmatics, you wouldn't say that! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It IS Obvious, that it's an Impossibility! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The Question of "whether or not God exists" is a Philosophical & Meataphysical >>>>>>>>Question. >>>>>>>>Would you agree? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Some say.. "It can't be Proven". >>>>>>>>With a Philosophical Question, there are NO 'right or wrong' answers... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>With Mathmatics, there ARE 'right & wrong' answers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Mathematics will not tell you if it is practically possible to solve chess. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Your perception is in error! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>THINK! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"In a tree, from the Starting Position, there are 20 possible moves for white. >>>>>>>>There are 20 * 20 = 400 possible moves for black, depending on what white does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yes but you do not need to analyze everyone of them and no program does it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Then there are 400 * 20 = 8,000 for white. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The number of possible games of 3 plies is more than 8000. >>>>>>>The number of possible positions that you get after 3 plies is smaller because >>>>>>>1.e4 e6 2.d4 is identical to 1.d4 e6 2.e4 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then there are 8,000 * 20 = 160,000 >>>>>>>>for black, and so on. If you were to fully develop the entire tree for all >>>>>>>>possible chess moves, the total number of board positions is about >>>>>>>>1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, >>>>>>>>000,000,000,000, or 10^120, give or take a few. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The number of possible games is higher than 10^120 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Give or take a few... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The number of total positions is clearly smaller. >>>>>> >>>>>>I just proved it isn't! >>>>> >>>>>No you did not. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Maybe 10^40 and it is easy to prove it. >>>>>> >>>>>>PROVE IT! Stop your absurd assertions! >>>>> >>>>>Ok here is a proof it is less than 10^55 >>>>> >>>>>For every position you do the following steps: >>>>> >>>>>1)defining place for the kings: >>>>>less than 64^2=2^12 possibilities >>>>>2)defining the empty squares of the rest of the pieces 2^62 possibilities >>>>> >>>>>3)defining the type of the pieces in the non empty squares. >>>>> >>>>>Every non empty square has 10 possibilities(5 for white and 5 for black): >>>>>1)White queen >>>>>2)White Rook >>>>>3)White bishop >>>>>4)White knight >>>>>5)White pawn >>>>> >>>>>The total number of cases is 10 for every one of the 30 squares(or less non >>>>>empty squares so you have at most 10^30 possibilities. >>>>> >>>>>4)defining the side to move 2 possibilities >>>>> >>>>>5)define the ep flag 8 possibilities >>>>> >>>>>6)defining castling rights(16 possibilities in the worst case) >>>>> >>>>>2^74*10^30*2*8*16<10^55 >>>>> >>>>>Most of the positions are illegal because position when the side to move is in >>>>>check is illegal or position when white has 9 pawns is illegal. >>>>> >>>>>If you limit yourself only to legal positions than 10^40 seems to be a good >>>>>estimate. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Well it's NOT! >>>>Key word again... "Seems". You use that a LOT Uri. >>>>Possible moves... 10 ^120th Power! IN an "average game of 40 moves... >>>>NOW REFUTE IT! >>>>Can't huh? >>> >>>possible moves is not possible positions. >>> >>>possible moves in game of 40 moves of KRB vs KR is also in the same order but >>>programs can see mate in more than 50 in that endgame because the tablebases are >>>based on analysis of positions and not on analysis of moves and first the >>>program find all the mate position and later it finds all the position when the >>>distance to mate in 1 and continue in that way. >>> >> >> >>"Possible Moves" ARE POSITIONS! > >You are wrong. > >>Legal Positions... > >The number of legal positions is not remotely connected to the number of >possible games. > >>They are for practical purposes INFINITE! > >That is a silly thing to say. "Possible moves" in a game of Chess ARE Legal Moves only! That is irrefutable! If you think that is silly; ya been nippin on the juice again... Stay away from that "White Lightnin.." it'll make ya go Blind as well as Dumb!
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