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Subject: Re: Lies.. Damn Lies & Statistics!

Author: Michael Yee

Date: 18:41:47 01/12/05

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On January 12, 2005 at 21:36:05, chandler yergin wrote:
>On January 12, 2005 at 21:28:02, Michael Yee wrote:
>>On January 12, 2005 at 21:07:42, chandler yergin wrote:
>>>On January 12, 2005 at 21:03:54, Michael Yee wrote:

[snip]

>>>>What you just said is correct since you're talking about the *tree* of moves.
>>>>But Uri and Dann are talking about the *set* of unique positions (many of which
>>>>can arise through different move orders). So you and they are talking about
>>>>different (mathematical) objects--trees (or paths in a tree) and graphs (or
>>>>nodes in a graph).
>>>>
>>>>By the way, just because some quantity is large (or infinite) doesn't mean you
>>>>can't prove something about it mathematically. For instance, you can prove that
>>>>a geometric series (e.g., 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ...) convergences to a number even
>>>>though their are an infinite number of terms.
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah.. ya can compute Pi to a Billion or so digits...
>>>I round off at 3.1416...
>>>Close enough for me..
>>>So What?
>>>
>>>Ur missing the point.
>>
>>Actually, I don't think I'm missing your point. What you seem to be saying is
>>this:
>>
>>(1) There are approx 10^120 chess positions in the *tree* of moves
>>(2) There aren't even that many atoms in the universe
>>(3) Therefore, it's impossible to "mathematically prove" anything about chess
>>(i.e., solve it)
>>
>>And these are my points:
>>
>>(1) For solving chess, you only need to consider unique positions
>>(2) You can prove things about infinite sets of things without having to "touch"
>>each item. For example, we can even stay with your move tree and consider a K
>>and Q versus K ending. Ignoring the 50-move rule, there are infinitely many
>>move-paths (in your model) starting from some root position. By your thinking (I
>>think), it would be impossible to prove that K+Q is a win because you couldn't
>>possibly deal with an infinite number of move paths. But I think you would agree
>>that it's easily shown to be a win.
>
>
>End Game Tablebases Prove it... of course...
>
>What was the Topic?
>Solving.. the Game of Chess.
>Try reading with comprehension, and stick to the subject!
>Too complicated for ya??
>

I know the topic is solving chess. My point was that your logic/argument applied
to even a simpler subproblem of chess goes haywire (and thus must be flawed).
(That is, if my summary of your points was accurate.)





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