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Subject: Re: Bionic vs Crafty, once again

Author: Don Dailey

Date: 13:44:36 01/23/99

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On January 23, 1999 at 14:12:33, Frank Quisinsky wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Hans is attacked to injustice!
>
>They are themselves united three programmers: -))
>(Bruce Morland, Robert Hyatt and Don Dailey).

I'm flattered to be considered in the same company as these
two gentlemen but I don't work with either of them on anything.


>The three musketeers (sorry) against Hans, interestingly!
>
>Does each new program now be attacked here?
>It could be Crafty!
>
>Maybe, it was also a mistake to give the Source code of Crafty freely.
>
>A mouse is attacked by three elephants, why ??
>
>I like to defend the mouse!
>
>
>Don and Robert,
>
>here has developed so good programs, would also like others that.
>And the help of Robert (Source code) for other programmers
>is great however. Therefore why now attacks Hans, he was only honest.
>
>A fan of Crafty and Bionic Impakt!


I reserve judgment on what happened at the tournament.  I also propose
an experiment and I also have a question for Bob Hyatt.  I don't doubt
Bob's results at all, I just don't really know anything about how he
ran his test and want to know what he considered a match, how many
games he looked at and how many moves in these games and actual
match percentage.   The actual number of matches don't mean enough
for me to make a judgement.  I don't know if 90% is reasonable to
expect or ridiculously high.  Mabye most programs will match most
moves in a game with forced moves.

Bob notices that Bionics moves closely match some version of Crafty's
moves except in 2 cases.  But the question is:  Do they match as some
specified time control on some particular piece of hardware?  Or is
it the case that at some point in the evaluation, Crafty would play
a move Bionic actually played?   I also would like to know how many
games you actually tested this against.  A single game with lots of
forcing moves might leave some room for doubt, probably most programs
would match a high percentage.  I can see a possibility that if I
did a 10 minute search with Cilkchess I might match a lot of moves
that another computer might make, especially if I could match them against
ANY move Cilkchess might play during the whole search period.

Why don't several of us try this same experiment with our own chess
programs?   The question I want to answer, is what is a reasonable
number of moves to match against Bionic?   Maybe if one or two of
us can get a very high move matching percentage this will exonerate
Bionic?

If anyone is interested, pick a bionic game at random from the 1st
week of play in the Dutch98 championship and report your results
here.  The 1st week is the first 6 rounds.  You can get the games
from the Dutch site.  My site has a link to the dutch site
somewhere: "supertech.lcs.mit.edu/~dutch98"

I suggest we start at move 20 to bypass the book and that we pick
games at random in case a particularly tactical and forcing game
needs to be seen, where a high match is likely.

Can you give us more details Bob?   I would like to either
exonerate Bionic, show that there is room for doubt, or convince
myself that they were indeed using Crafty just for my own edification
before I form a personal opinion.

- Don



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