Author: chandler yergin
Date: 13:57:20 01/17/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 17, 2005 at 11:32:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On January 16, 2005 at 15:33:38, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>On January 16, 2005 at 13:10:08, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>>
>>>On January 16, 2005 at 07:55:49, Yar wrote:
>>>
>>>>How long does it take for your engine to find kf3 ?
>>
>>DOES IT MATTER?
>>The King has 6 "Possible" Moves....
>>
>>Use Multiple Lines... USE the TOOLS!
>>Create 6 pV's in Parallel SIMULTANEOUSLY!
>
>Yes, and it takes 6x longer to compute those 6 pvs, which means the program
>searches about 1.5-2.0 plies _shallower_ than it would normally search showing
>only one PV.
>
>What exactly would this prove, therefore???
>
>You don't quite understand alpha/beta search yet, obviously...
>
>
>>
>>Each Move generates a Line..
>>SEE how the Computer Evaluates ALL of them! At the SAME TIME!
>>New game,
>>[D]8/7R/1N2k1p1/P1p1b3/P3r3/7P/4K3/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Shredder 8:
>>
>>1. +- (2.78): 1.Kf3 Rb4 2.Rb7
>>2. +- (1.92): 1.Kd1 Rd4+ 2.Kc1 Rb4 3.Rb7 Kd6 4.Rb8 Kc6 5.Rc8+
>>3. +- (1.78): 1.Kd2 Rb4 2.Kd3 Rd4+ 3.Kc2 Rb4 4.Kc1 Bf4+ 5.Kc2 Be5 6.Kc1 Bf4+
>>7.Kc2 Be5 8.Kc1
>>4. +- (1.73): 1.Kd3 Rd4+ 2.Kc2 Rb4 3.Kc1 Bf4+ 4.Kc2 Be5 5.Kc1 Bf4+ 6.Kc2 Be5
>>7.Kc1
>>5. = (0.03): 1.Kf1 c4 2.Rd7 c3 3.Rd8 Bd4 4.Re8+ Kf5
>>6. µ (-0.74): 1.Kf2 c4 2.a6 Bd4+ 3.Kg2 Re2+ 4.Kf1 Rf2+ 5.Ke1 Bxb6 6.Rb7 Bc5 7.a7
>>c3 8.a8Q Rf8 9.Qxf8 c2 10.Qxc5
>>
>>(, 16.01.2005)
>>
>>
>>THIS, is the ‘absurdity' that I have with Programmers.
>
>It is "absurdity" of course, but _not_ with the programmers...
>
>
>>
>>You ‘wait'for 3 Hours?
>>
>>WHY?
>>
>>Of Course the Program finds 1. Kf3 Evaluates it as Best...
>>So.. THEN Focus on the one Line!
>>It Will Scroll that pV, and you haven't 'lost' any information.
>>
>>Indeed, you have gained information.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>8/7R/1N2k1p1/P1p1b3/P3r3/7P/4K3/8 w - - 0 47
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Yace almost immediately, loses it after some seconds. Finds it again after 3
>>>hours (when I lost patience). Is Kf3 the only winning move?
>>
>>
>>If you'd have used Multiple Lines, you'd Know; and could use those 3 Hours
>>a bit more productively!
>
>Totally wrong conceptually.
Wrong! I won't let you get away with this either!
You think Chessbase doesn't understand their Modules?
You think Chessbase Programmers don't understand Programming?
You, have a lot to learn!
Using the Tools THEY suggest, and the Method THEY suggest, is
exactly what I have Posted!
I get a lot of "Trash Talking" over here; and I'll "respond" in kind,
to the willful ignorance of those who attack me with garbage!
> The point is that the engine sees the right move
>quickly, but then doesn't understand why it is right so that the move was just
>lucky to be first. After a _long_ search the program discovers the tactical
>reason that makes the move really best...
How long is long....? Subjective huh?
I said, and I say again..
"USE the TOOLS" at your disposal!
Using Multiple lines, generating 6, because the King ONLY has 6 possible
moves... wait a decent amount of time.. 10 minutes, which is a Depth of search
to about 18 or 20 Plies, then, FOCUS on the Main pV, and search THAT one in
depth. If, in the deeper search the Program finds a better move, the line will
be overwritten, however I doubt it will switch.
There is NOTHING wrong with my 'Concept', it is the CHESSBASE concept.
This is not Rocket Science!
>
>No program will understand this type of move at a shallow search unless it has
>specific chess knowledge. In that case it would not need to search that deeply
>to see the idea behind the move.
>
>This entire discussion is so ridiculous that any student participating in it
>should be given a grade of "F" for not understanding basic concepts yet arguing
>with those that do...
I agree.... you get an "F-"
Because obviously you, don't understand what is going on.
>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dieter
>>>
>>> 107976929 2:02.5 1.12 14. 47.Kd1 Rb4 48.Rb7 Rd4+ 49.Ke2 Re4+ 50.Kf3 Rf4+
>>> 51.Kg2 c4 52.a6 c3 53.a7 c2 54.a8=Q c1=Q
>>> 55.Qe8+ Kf5 56.Rf7+ Bf6 57.Rxf6+ Kxf6 58.Nd5+
>>> Kf5 {-80}
>>> 196012611 3:43.2 1.15 15t 47.Kd1 Rb4 48.Rb7 Kd6 49.Nc8+ Kc6 50.Rxb4 cxb4
>>> 51.Ne7+ Kb7H 52.Nxg6H Bc3H 53.Kc2H Ka6H 54.h4H
>>> Bd2H {HT} {150}
>>> 250601620 4:50.1 1.15 15. 47.Kd1 Rb4 48.Rb7 Kd6 49.Nc8+ Kc6 50.Rxb4 cxb4
>>> 51.Ne7+ Kb7 52.Nxg6 Bc3 53.Kc2 Ka6 54.h4 Bd2
>>> {HT} {150}
>>> 466173985 9:02.1 1.20 16t 47.Kd1 Rb4 48.Rb7 Rd4+ 49.Kc1 Kd6 50.Rb8 Kc6
>>> 51.Rc8+ Bc7 52.Na8 Rc4+ 53.Kd2 Kb7 54.Rxc7+
>>> Kxa8 55.Rc6 Rd4+ 56.Kc3 Rh4 {HT} {80}
>>> 653549812 12:56.4 1.20 16. 47.Kd1 Rb4 48.Rb7 Rd4+ 49.Kc1 Kd6 50.Rb8 Kc6
>>> 51.Rc8+ Bc7 52.Na8 Rc4+ 53.Kd2 Kb7 54.Rxc7+
>>> Kxa8 55.Rc6 Rd4+ 56.Kc3 Rh4 {HT} {80}
>>>1088869997 20:39.7 1.60 17++ 47.Kd1 Rb4 48.Rb7 Rd4+ 49.Kc2 c4 50.a6 c3
>>> 51.Rd7 Rxd7 52.Nxd7 Bd4 53.Nf8+ Kf7 54.Nh7 Bb6
>>> 55.Kxc3 Kg8 56.a7 Bxa7 57.Ng5 {HT} {70}
>>>1623915033 30:01.4 1.62 17t 47.Kd1 Rd4+ 48.Kc1 Rb4 49.Rb7 Kd6 50.Rb8 Ke6
>>> 51.Re8+ Kf5 52.a6 Rxb6 53.a7 Ra6 54.a8=Q Rxa8
>>> 55.Rxa8 c4 56.Rc8 Bf4+ 57.Kc2 {HT} {150}
>>>1953247137 36:32.4 1.62 17. 47.Kd1 Rd4+ 48.Kc1 Rb4 49.Rb7 Kd6 50.Rb8 Ke6
>>> 51.Re8+ Kf5 52.a6 Rxb6 53.a7 Ra6 54.a8=Q Rxa8
>>> 55.Rxa8 c4 56.Rc8 Bf4+ 57.Kc2 {HT} {150}
>>>2878266080 53:20.6 1.65 18t 47.Kd1 Rd4+ 48.Kc1 Rb4 49.Rb7 Kd6 50.Rb8 Ke6
>>> 51.Re8+ Kf5 52.a6 Rxb6 53.a7 Ra6 54.a8=Q Rxa8
>>> 55.Rxa8 c4 56.Re8 Ke4 57.Kd2 c3+ {HT} {150}
>>>3788563414 1:12:24 1.65 18. 47.Kd1 Rd4+ 48.Kc1 Rb4 49.Rb7 Kd6 50.Rb8 Ke6
>>> 51.Re8+ Kf5 52.a6 Rxb6 53.a7 Ra6 54.a8=Q Rxa8
>>> 55.Rxa8 c4 56.Re8 Ke4 57.Kd2 c3+ {HT} {150}
>>>2054909735 2:05:09 1.59 19t 47.Kd1 Rd4+ 48.Kc1 Rb4 49.Rb7 Kd6 50.Rb8 Kc6
>>> 51.Rc8+ Kb7 52.Rxc5 Bh2 53.Rc4 Rb3 54.Rh4 Ka6
>>> 55.Kc2 Rf3 56.Nc4 Rf2+ 57.Kd3 Bf4 {HT} {150}
>>> 568389920 3:04:14 1.60 19t+ 47.Kf3 Rf4+ 48.Kg2 Rb4 49.Rb7 Rb2+ 50.Kf3 Rb3+
>>> 51.Ke2 Bf6 52.a6 Rg3
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