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Subject: Re: 2 points Chandler One Point for you to Ponder

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 14:24:04 01/17/05

Go up one level in this thread


On January 17, 2005 at 15:14:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 17, 2005 at 12:06:59, Madhavan wrote:
>
>>On January 17, 2005 at 11:43:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 17, 2005 at 06:06:00, Madhavan wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Other Programs had a Big Bug in them.. perhaps it's fixed now,
>>>>>>but, a few years ago, it was obvious that to Beat the Top Programs,
>>>>>>White gets a Stonewall Position, and demolishes Black on the Kingside!
>>>>>
>>>>>Feel free to log on to ICC and show me this.  I'll be willing to let Crafty play
>>>>>you as many games (Crafty black) as you want, you always playing the Stonewall.
>>>>
>>>>rather than calling rated players to ICC,and claiming "chess can be solved"
>>>>can you post the game that has no errors on both sides?
>>>
>>>Can you please grab your dictionary first?  "can be" is _not_ the same as "has
>>>been".
>>
>>>Chess is a provably finite game.  It can not go on forever due to the 50-move
>>>rule (not to mention 3-fold repetition).  Any finite game can most definitely be
>>>solved, given enough time.  Or fast enough hardware.  But not today.  Not yet...
>>
>>i agree with that,you didnt claim "chess has been solved" but you did claim "
>>Any finite game can most definitely be solved"with faster hardware"
>
>and given enough time.  And it is provably true since any computer can search a
>finite search space in finite time.  How long "finite time" is, could be open
>for discussion, but not whether or not it exists at all...
>
>>
>>i deny that,strongest program running on a faster hardware should not get a draw
>>or lose in many games against super grandmasters,if it does then it is
>>considered as not solved
>
>The game has not been solved.  It will not be solved for a _long_ time.  How
>long is a long time?  I'd take odds on anything less than 100 years, as anything
>beyond that will have me at over 150 years old, I'll more likely be room
>temperature by then and a bet would be moot.  So it won't be solved in my
>lifetime, almost certainly.

> And it _may_ not be solved ever, because who knows
>how long it will take compared to the expected lifetime of the universe before
>it contracts and the process is re-started with another big bang?

Replace _may_not be, with _will_not be; or _cannot_ be,
and by Jove, you have it!


>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>Who can post a perfect game?  Who could evaluate such a game and prove it is
>>>perfect, until chess is solved...
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Put up any complicated Position, and let 5 Programs evaluate it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tell me they ALL eval the pV the same?
>>>>>>NONSENSE!
>>>>>
>>>>>So?  Neither do humans.  You seem to overlook that...
>>>>>



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