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Subject: Re: Bionic vs Crafty, once again

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 11:04:26 01/24/99

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>>If people pick Crafty's sources, make their own changes and give
>>the program an own name then that's perfectly legal. Adding all
>>kind of demands to the license agreement are not necessarily
>>binding.

>baloney on two points.  Freeware licenses have stood up in court already.
>The GPL from project GNU is quite well-known.  for the second point, try to
>enter a 'slightly modified copy of a freeware program' into an ACM or WCCC
>event.  That won't happen.  The rules have forbid this since the very early
>days.

Just took a look at your sources I once have downloaded. I noticed
there is no license agreement or copyright statement at all?

How can people know about the legal status?


>>As far as I understand Dutch law it is perfectly legal to pick
>>Crafty's source-code, make changes, build an own GUI and
>>sell it. This might differ from country to country I don't know.

>>The only thing Bob has a right to demand is that it should be
>>forbidden to release a 100% exact copy of the freeware
>>sources and give it a new name and/or sell it.

>>I don't understand all the fuss about this topic. Many programs
>>are based on the GNU freeware sources. Never saw discussions
>>like this. Why is the GNU status different than Crafty status?



>Maybe if you would enter Rebel in one of these tournaments, you might
>'change your tune'.  Ie would you _really_ want to play today's crafty
>at a 3:1 time handicap?  I don't think so.  But you would have to if the
>tournament allows multiple cpus like the Dutch event.  And you'd be sitting
>there playing a program with a very good chance of beating you, with that
>program using something the authors probably don't even understand how it
>works (the parallel search).

You did not answer the question. The topic is Bionic and the supposed
fraud. Sofar I wasn't able to find anything in your sources that covers
your claims.


>Seem reasonable, now?  I never intended to release something that
>would be used to bash other programs in this way..

Fine. Then make it very clear in a license agreement or copyright
notice. Sofar I haven't seen anything.



>>As for tournaments, Crafty or GNU clones should be allowed
>>from the juridical point of view as simple as that. I can imagine
>>organizers might decide otherwise but they are taking a risk
>>concerning the juridical point of view. Freeware is freeware. In
>>the Crafty / GNU case all ideas behind the program are made
>>public so everybody is allowed to use it. You can not publish
>>your ideas in the newspaper and say, "I don't want you to
>>use it".



>Sure you can.  You can publish "anything" and still prevent it from being
>taken 'word for word'.  I believe that would be called plagarism?  Taking
>the 'ideas' from crafty was the point of releasing it.  _not_ taking 99% of
>the code, adding a few eval changes, and then using that in a computer chess
>event.  IE the WCCC in Paderborn is not going to allow such an entry...  The
>rules have _always_ not allowed such, and they have tightened them this year
>to be sure this doesn't get out of control...

Say it too in the license agreement.


>I don't mind anybody doing anything to crafty, and using it however they want,
>but it does _not_ seem fair to take something no one else has, with _zero_
>effort (the parallel search) and then use that to roll over programs that have
>a lot of time invested by the programmers working on them.  That's what started
>this discussion _during_ the tournament.. and that has been my point ever since.
>I don't think anyone minds playing "crafty" in a tournament.  But they should
>object to having 5 in the same event. Because the odds are that 'crafty' is
>going to win having 5 chances out of N.  That I call 'unfair' odds. Which was
>the same reason many protested "gunda-1' in the Jakarta event.

Add rules for this it too in the license agreement.

Kind regards,

Ed Schroder



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